Brandon Vera ~ Most Overrated in sports history

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hathcock32
2/12/07 5:27:41PM
Who has the guy beat to demand a Million dollars a fight??? die hard Ufc fan and i could care less if hes goes somewhere else and fights..he hasnt proved anything to me yet by beating C class fighters(Frank Mir)
Savy
2/12/07 5:41:09PM
The title of this thread is absolutely absurd. Bash the guy for being greedy all you want; but don't say he is overrated.
He tapped Auserrio Silva in the first round. Tim Sylvia couldn't finish him in 15 minutes.
Vera is one of the most complete fighters around. Great hands, excelent leg kicks, background in greco...
I don't support what he's doing on the business side of things, but that aint my business. But I am a huge fan of what he does in the ring. Vera will be a force for many years to come.
tffdwg38
2/12/07 5:43:41PM
hathcock32
2/12/07 5:49:25PM
EXACTLY...he is scared of fighting any of the UFC HW (AA, Cro Cop, Tim) cuase the fact is the fight wouldent last long...he wants to go get a million dollars per fight fighting the likes of Cabbage Correira or Ron Waterman
Reignofterror
2/12/07 5:50:00PM

Posted by Savy Vera will be a force for many years to come.


Not if he continues to ask for the type of cash hes asking for. Maybe keyword maybe in 3-4 years he could start making that kind of cash but as of now he hasn't beaten anyone that could back up that kind of money.
hathcock32
2/12/07 5:56:07PM
Brandon vera making as much as Chuck and Tito...haha yea he deserves it
strikefirstgear
2/12/07 8:07:35PM
I am not a fan of Vera (except what he has done in the ring) but it seems to me that if he is being offered over a million a fight in another organization and 200k a fight in the UFC then the decision is an easy one.

If another company offered me 5 times the amount I was currently making to work for them I would have to give my current company a chance to pay that and then move on. I am an extremely loyal guy and all but thats 5 times the amount. For me and my family the decision would be clear.

1 fight in EliteXC = 5 fights in UFC - same payday! No brainer.

I dont think he is afraid to fight anyone. Business is business. I hope he doesn't burn bridges because when Elite XC goes away he will be wanting to come back.

Just my thoughts.
Trapt1nw0nder
2/12/07 8:16:46PM

Posted by Savy

The title of this thread is absolutely absurd. Bash the guy for being greedy all you want; but don't say he is overrated.
He tapped Auserrio Silva in the first round. Tim Sylvia couldn't finish him in 15 minutes.
Vera is one of the most complete fighters around. Great hands, excelent leg kicks, background in greco...
I don't support what he's doing on the business side of things, but that aint my business. But I am a huge fan of what he does in the ring. Vera will be a force for many years to come.



i agree...funny how some people need to start a thread to see if Brandon is overrated like if they dont have eyes and see for themselves..

Brandon is the truth...no lie
Snacks
2/12/07 8:20:43PM

Posted by hathcock32

Who has the guy beat to demand a Million dollars a fight??? die hard Ufc fan and i could care less if hes goes somewhere else and fights..he hasnt proved anything to me yet by beating C class fighters(Frank Mir)



Saying that the UFC had a C class fighter for a champ is amazingly tight.
Stickan
2/12/07 8:22:50PM
No way close the most overrated. A list of some overrated dudes:

Sean "The Cannon" Gannon - Some people actually though he would make a splash in the HW division.

Frank Mir - Who has he beaten besides Sylvia?

Frank Shamrock - Is there even a doubt about this?

Carlos Newton
Greene33
2/13/07 12:10:01AM
Vera is just a promising talent, we cant call him out on being overrated because he is still coming into the sport. It is laughable that he wants title holder money without a title, all because Gary Shaw is trying to pry any marketable fighter away form the UFC. Hell i think he would offer that much to Forrest when his contract is up, Brandon Vera needs to KO a name or at least a legitimate top 5 fighter before he gets what wants. I really hope i don't have to watch him fight lesser competition in Elite all because he needs to get paid now...
JunCTion
2/13/07 2:18:00AM
he doesnt deserve the money, with his attitude he doesn't deserve to be watched and he certainly doesn't deserve all this talk on multiple posts until he beats someone impresive and until that happens maybe he should beat on the person that gives him advice.
jmoooooo
2/13/07 2:30:24AM
worst thread topic in history.


the guy fights and wins, and would have taken the title shot against sylvia if dana had allowed it (but wouldnt because there was only 1 fight left on his contract)

scared of tim? nah.

over rated because you think hes greedy? if he thinks hes worth 1.5 million per fight, and someone is paying him 1.5 million per fight, then that means that the market has decided his value, and its not overpaid anymore. the market will determine the value of the commodity, and in this case, it has. so whether you think its too much is moot, your opinion doesnt matter as you are not in the market to contract people to fight for you....shaw is.

a fighter as well rounded as brandon who also has the ability to easily cut to 205 and be a force in 2 divisions is hardly over rated.
JunCTion
2/13/07 2:39:05AM

Posted by jmoooooo

worst thread topic in history.


the guy fights and wins, and would have taken the title shot against sylvia if dana had allowed it (but wouldnt because there was only 1 fight left on his contract)

scared of tim? nah.

over rated because you think hes greedy? if he thinks hes worth 1.5 million per fight, and someone is paying him 1.5 million per fight, then that means that the market has decided his value, and its not overpaid anymore. the market will determine the value of the commodity, and in this case, it has. so whether you think its too much is moot, your opinion doesnt matter as you are not in the market to contract people to fight for you....shaw is.

a fighter as well rounded as brandon who also has the ability to easily cut to 205 and be a force in 2 divisions is hardly over rated.



understand your point about the money and actually agree with it but i thought he wanted to be in the big show and as a fan i am a lot more impressed with a fighter that says its not about the money, its about fighting and winning.
also, if hes that well rounded and has that ability to compete in both divisions than PROVE IT and youll get your money
Svartorm
2/13/07 2:43:56AM

Posted by Stickan

No way close the most overrated. A list of some overrated dudes:

Sean "The Cannon" Gannon - Some people actually though he would make a splash in the HW division.

Frank Mir - Who has he beaten besides Sylvia?

Frank Shamrock - Is there even a doubt about this?

Carlos Newton



Agreed on Sean Gannon. Besides an iron will, he brought absolutely nothing to the octagon. They might as well have pushed Takayama.

Frank Mir though? His current condition aside, hes a fantastic grappler, and took out Pete Williams in his prime and easily put away Tank Abbott, even opting for a bizarre combination omaplata ankle lock to do it.

As for Frank, I think you're just pissed off about Saturday night. Hes put away a whos who list of opponents from back in his day. We're yet to see if he still has it, but I'd hardly consider him overrated.

Carlos Newton is one of the best pure grapplers in the sport, and while his record isn't that great, hes lost to some of the best fighters of all time, and put more than a few to rest. Plus, who really talks up Carlos Newton anymore? The TUF generation doesn't even know who he is for the most part.
jmoooooo
2/13/07 2:54:52AM

Posted by JunCTion


Posted by jmoooooo

worst thread topic in history.


the guy fights and wins, and would have taken the title shot against sylvia if dana had allowed it (but wouldnt because there was only 1 fight left on his contract)

scared of tim? nah.

over rated because you think hes greedy? if he thinks hes worth 1.5 million per fight, and someone is paying him 1.5 million per fight, then that means that the market has decided his value, and its not overpaid anymore. the market will determine the value of the commodity, and in this case, it has. so whether you think its too much is moot, your opinion doesnt matter as you are not in the market to contract people to fight for you....shaw is.

a fighter as well rounded as brandon who also has the ability to easily cut to 205 and be a force in 2 divisions is hardly over rated.



understand your point about the money and actually agree with it but i thought he wanted to be in the big show and as a fan i am a lot more impressed with a fighter that says its not about the money, its about fighting and winning.
also, if hes that well rounded and has that ability to compete in both divisions than PROVE IT and youll get your money




its great to hear people say that they dont fight for the money..but they're lying to you. if you told rich franklin that anderson silva was going to reorganize his face for free, i dont think he would have stepped into the ring. im not saying fighters are all about the money, but of course they like to get paid. im more impressed when a fighter actually does say its about the money (rampage)...be honest....

as it was pointed out...if you were offered 1 million (or 1.5 million, as i heard) to do the exact same thing as you were currently being paid sub 200k for.......its a no brainer, and 99% of the people who say they would choose the 200k in the ufc over 1.5mil in elite are lying to you.

the only problem with proving how good he is, is he could fight another 10 fights in the HW division before a lot of the doubters would believe hes good, then he would have to drop and fight another 10 fightes at LHW and win before he got respect there...20 fights at even 4 fights a year......why wait that long if what you want is already being offered to you? maybe brandon looked at it that the UFC's hw division was thin and weak, and even if he was the champion, he would constantly have to live with hearing about how it means little, prides is better, paper champion, blah blah blah. so he cut and ran and took the sweet deal. doesnt make him over rated...makes him smart.. he can fight 4 fights and retire if his head gets caved in.

would he beat fedor? nooooooooo

could he beat CC...yes. likely? not at this point..but brandon is still very young too.....in 3-4 years he could be one of the top HW in the world (top 3)..and if he gets to that point in 3 or 4 years, he will have banked a pile of cash in elite, and dana will be looking to bring him back..........

so he could be at the same point in 4 years, back in the UFC fighting for the belt, and already made his money.........smart. smart smart smart.
strikefirstgear
2/13/07 3:17:53AM

Posted by jmoooooo

its great to hear people say that they dont fight for the money..but they're lying to you. if you told rich franklin that anderson silva was going to reorganize his face for free, i dont think he would have stepped into the ring. im not saying fighters are all about the money, but of course they like to get paid. im more impressed when a fighter actually does say its about the money (rampage)...be honest....

as it was pointed out...if you were offered 1 million (or 1.5 million, as i heard) to do the exact same thing as you were currently being paid sub 200k for.......its a no brainer, and 99% of the people who say they would choose the 200k in the ufc over 1.5mil in elite are lying to you.

the only problem with proving how good he is, is he could fight another 10 fights in the HW division before a lot of the doubters would believe hes good, then he would have to drop and fight another 10 fightes at LHW and win before he got respect there...20 fights at even 4 fights a year......why wait that long if what you want is already being offered to you? maybe brandon looked at it that the UFC's hw division was thin and weak, and even if he was the champion, he would constantly have to live with hearing about how it means little, prides is better, paper champion, blah blah blah. so he cut and ran and took the sweet deal. doesnt make him over rated...makes him smart.. he can fight 4 fights and retire if his head gets caved in.

would he beat fedor? nooooooooo

could he beat CC...yes. likely? not at this point..but brandon is still very young too.....in 3-4 years he could be one of the top HW in the world (top 3)..and if he gets to that point in 3 or 4 years, he will have banked a pile of cash in elite, and dana will be looking to bring him back..........

so he could be at the same point in 4 years, back in the UFC fighting for the belt, and already made his money.........smart. smart smart smart.



Well put! There are no guarantees in this sport. An injury can sideline a guy for a long time or forever. Things happen and people aren't the same afterword. There are tons of stories about great prospects who should have done more but didn't for one reason or another (David Loiseau, David Terrell, etc). If he can get paid now and worry about the legacy later, might be smart way to go.





hathcock32
2/13/07 3:27:52AM
overrated...the word i was looking for was overhyped. Well it just takes away from the best he says he wants to be the best well fight the best and win and you know what you will get payed. The overpayed Vera will disapear off the MMA universe if he goes to another organization. You will see Vera on the Undercard event of a fight night taking on Sam Hoger or Ross Pointon making 2,000 per fight..If you want to be the best you have to fight the best!!!!
jmoooooo
2/13/07 3:40:05AM

Posted by hathcock32

overrated...the word i was looking for was overhyped. Well it just takes away from the best he says he wants to be the best well fight the best and win and you know what you will get payed. The overpayed Vera will disapear off the MMA universe if he goes to another organization. You will see Vera on the Undercard event of a fight night taking on Sam Hoger or Ross Pointon making 2,000 per fight..If you want to be the best you have to fight the best!!!!



but in order to get his title shot, dana white wanted to lock him in to a long term deal for a lot less money.

if hes locked into a 6 fight deal at 175k/fight

his first fight is his title shot, he wins. hurray! hes the champ. pockets 175k

next fight is against crocop...hes loses, gets his head kicked in. pockets 175k. cant fight for 8 months while he recovers.

year 2 -

fights eddie sanchez on the undercard to a ppv. wins! pockets 175k.

fights arlovski at the ass end of a ppv. wins! pockets 175k.

fights tim sylvia for #1 contender status, wins! pockets 175k.

now he has 1 fight left on his contract, and dana wont give him a title shot without locking him in at a low low price long term again.

so after 2 years, he has made 875k, held and lost the belt, and is in the same position he (was in) now....in a weak position to bargain for more money, when the title shot is being held out like a golden carrot in front of him.


or!

goes to elite, fights 3 times in 1 year against mostly cans. pockets 4.5 million.

elite brings in a few other fighters, maybe develops their own belt system, brandon is the champion, but still fighting second rate fighters....year 2, fights 3 more times, pockets another 4.5 million.

after 2 years he is the champ in (what might be by then) the 3rd best mma org (as far as visibility and profile go, if shaw is aggressive with his signings)

he has pocketed 9 million dollars.

he builds his own huge fan base.

he evolves into a better fighter.

cro-cop has retired, and the UFC HW division is again filled with cans/unprovens.

dana white needs a big name to come in (like he did with CC this year)..brandon vera is in a much better place to bargain.


9 million, still get a title shot vs. 875k and a title shot.


of course, the scenario above is completely out of my head. but the numbers are (could be) very real.

9m vs 875k is a no brainer. i could live with not knowing if im the absolute best (which would still never happen with so many different orgs anyway) and have 9 million dollars in the bank.
uhlsc
2/13/07 11:40:47AM

Posted by jmoooooo


Posted by hathcock32

overrated...the word i was looking for was overhyped. Well it just takes away from the best he says he wants to be the best well fight the best and win and you know what you will get payed. The overpayed Vera will disapear off the MMA universe if he goes to another organization. You will see Vera on the Undercard event of a fight night taking on Sam Hoger or Ross Pointon making 2,000 per fight..If you want to be the best you have to fight the best!!!!



but in order to get his title shot, dana white wanted to lock him in to a long term deal for a lot less money.

if hes locked into a 6 fight deal at 175k/fight

his first fight is his title shot, he wins. hurray! hes the champ. pockets 175k

next fight is against crocop...hes loses, gets his head kicked in. pockets 175k. cant fight for 8 months while he recovers.

year 2 -


fights eddie sanchez on the undercard to a ppv. wins! pockets 175k.

fights arlovski at the ass end of a ppv. wins! pockets 175k.

fights tim sylvia for #1 contender status, wins! pockets 175k.

now he has 1 fight left on his contract, and dana wont give him a title shot without locking him in at a low low price long term again.

so after 2 years, he has made 875k, held and lost the belt, and is in the same position he (was in) now....in a weak position to bargain for more money, when the title shot is being held out like a golden carrot in front of him.


or!

goes to elite, fights 3 times in 1 year against mostly cans. pockets 4.5 million.

elite brings in a few other fighters, maybe develops their own belt system, brandon is the champion, but still fighting second rate fighters....year 2, fights 3 more times, pockets another 4.5 million.

after 2 years he is the champ in (what might be by then) the 3rd best mma org (as far as visibility and profile go, if shaw is aggressive with his signings)

he has pocketed 9 million dollars.

he builds his own huge fan base.

he evolves into a better fighter.

cro-cop has retired, and the UFC HW division is again filled with cans/unprovens.

dana white needs a big name to come in (like he did with CC this year)..brandon vera is in a much better place to bargain.


9 million, still get a title shot vs. 875k and a title shot.


of course, the scenario above is completely out of my head. but the numbers are (could be) very real.

9m vs 875k is a no brainer. i could live with not knowing if im the absolute best (which would still never happen with so many different orgs anyway) and have 9 million dollars in the bank.



or on the flipside of that he burns dana in negotiations twice and showtime flops on the lack depth in any given weight division and now he is out of his high paying org. and dana tells him to go #@%$ himself and he goes to pride 6 months later Zuffa buys out Pride and Vera is left behind to return to a lackluster K-1 career. that my outlook but hey he has 9 million dollars and he can tell his grandkids this is the money grandpa was given to fight cans and be the best at it
pv3Hpv3p
2/13/07 12:35:17PM
Over-rated, not at all... He's undefeated and if you look at how a lot of people are reacting to his demand for more $$$, I think that initself proves what he is worth... If he wasn't that good, then people simply wouldn't care...

On the other hand, Brandon Vera might be one of the early products of the UFC hype-machine, that has backfired on them... I think Dana and Zuffa were getting used to building these fighters up, lowballing them on contracts and making up for it with endorsements for products that they have stake in as well...

The UFC built up Vera...

They NEED the added strength in their HW div...

Vera realizes this and sees his prime negotiating opportunity...

What would you do in his situation??
waylon_o
2/13/07 2:03:56PM

Posted by Savy

The title of this thread is absolutely absurd. Bash the guy for being greedy all you want; but don't say he is overrated.
He tapped Auserrio Silva in the first round. Tim Sylvia couldn't finish him in 15 minutes.
Vera is one of the most complete fighters around. Great hands, excelent leg kicks, background in greco...
I don't support what he's doing on the business side of things, but that aint my business. But I am a huge fan of what he does in the ring. Vera will be a force for many years to come.



Tim Sylvia can't finish anyone in 15 minutes.
hippysmacker
2/13/07 2:10:21PM

Posted by waylon_o


Posted by Savy

The title of this thread is absolutely absurd. Bash the guy for being greedy all you want; but don't say he is overrated.
He tapped Auserrio Silva in the first round. Tim Sylvia couldn't finish him in 15 minutes.
Vera is one of the most complete fighters around. Great hands, excelent leg kicks, background in greco...
I don't support what he's doing on the business side of things, but that aint my business. But I am a huge fan of what he does in the ring. Vera will be a force for many years to come.



Tim Sylvia can't finish anyone in 15 minutes.



Dude , while I don't agree( 18 of 25 wins by Ko/TKO), that was funny
Jeffanori-Gomi
2/13/07 2:46:52PM
Paying someone on promise rather than paying someone on proven ability is very risky bussiness IMO. Vera could be champ, he could have a 12 inch dong, but untill he proves he's worth a million a fight it would be crazy for any promo company to dish out that kind of cash.

But all the power to him if he can get it I mean its not as if the UFC doesnt have that kind of money to dish out.
brodieros
2/13/07 5:16:36PM
He is good, really good, but he doesn't have enough fights to be worth 1 million a fight so i agree... Overrated.
BrAeDeN91
2/13/07 5:55:49PM
i have always thought that vera was overrated. he left the ufc because he was scared of cro cop, couture, sylvia. now he demands 1 million a fight that is ridiculous.
MurillaNinjaScrilla
2/13/07 6:47:47PM
I think he is a great well-rounded fighter who some may overrate, but anytime sports writers mention golfers and nascar drivers along with the likes of Jerry Rice, Michael Jordan, and ANY Mixed Martial Artist, that is what I call "Overrating"
Snacks
2/13/07 6:55:09PM
This thread is pretty funny.
hathcock32
2/13/07 10:34:51PM
Vera....overHYPED
hamm
2/13/07 11:04:02PM

Posted by Snacks


Posted by hathcock32

Who has the guy beat to demand a Million dollars a fight??? die hard Ufc fan and i could care less if hes goes somewhere else and fights..he hasnt proved anything to me yet by beating C class fighters(Frank Mir)



Saying that the UFC had a C class fighter for a champ is amazingly tight.




Mir before the accident may have been a decent fighter, but his post accident performances were in the area of C level.
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