......what should UFC do with boring fighters...?

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gskyprodigy
2/15/08 1:56:32PM
A) Release them from their contracts
B) lower their pay
C) Keep them on prelims until they show some fire!
D) ......forget about them.....

....don't know about u guys, but when I watch a UFC event, nothing bothers me more than boring fighters who go out and eak out a decision......

.....not to mention any names but....I choose A!
candynuts
2/15/08 2:01:15PM
What is boring to some is not boring to all.... some exciting fighters have boring fights... do you release them then?
woodmo
2/15/08 2:02:47PM
Everyone has a different definition of what a boring fight is. Some like the Tufman (kimbo/ Tank) Slugfest, some like a ground game chess match. What you call boring, I might think is exciting. Something tells me you would be a "booer" in a position ground battle.
wolfman
2/15/08 2:04:32PM

Posted by candynuts

What is boring to some is not boring to all.... some exciting fighters have boring fights... do you release them then?



Well said and I agree. However, I am sure option C has worked with some fighters. I see that you are still pretty new here, yet there is the option to add a poll. It is usually near the bottom of the page.
gskyprodigy
2/15/08 2:05:22PM
......my definition of boring.......is lay and pray.....does that clear things up from where I stand as a fan.....?
CornishMMA
2/15/08 2:06:40PM

Posted by gskyprodigy

A) Release them from their contracts
B) lower their pay
C) Keep them on prelims until they show some fire!
D) ......forget about them.....

....don't know about u guys, but when I watch a UFC event, nothing bothers me more than boring fighters who go out and eak out a decision......

.....not to mention any names but....I choose A!


Dude you cant start a thread like that and not actually state your reasons for thinking such a thing!!!!!!!! So go on ........... WHO do you hate that you want out of the UFC?

Im guessing its maybe a Machida, or Okami? Would of been Sylvia and he nearly KO Nog
grappler0000
2/15/08 2:08:25PM

Posted by gskyprodigy

......my definition of boring.......is lay and pray.....does that clear things up from where I stand as a fan.....?



Not really...LnP is a term that is thrown around way too frequently. It would be better to give an example. Either way I don't think it matters what someone's definition is...the question was what to do with them, regardless of your definition.
bullettdodger
2/15/08 2:21:54PM
They aren't trying to have a boring fight, so cut them some slack. When someone does something for you, regardless of whether they're fighting for your entertainment or performing some other service you don't fire them or anything like that... i understand being disappointed about a fight not being everything you thought it would be but it can't be more than it is, which is a fight! I personally don't like watching wrestlers sit in top position doing nothing, but i don't think they should be released. I don't think they should take a pay cut. I do think they should double their efforts to finish the fight, but you can't ask anymore from them but to try... so i got option E) none of the above
npayant
2/15/08 2:27:22PM
Man, this discussion of "boring" fighters always gets to me (as does all of the booers at events). If a couple of fighters are on the ground doing some GnP and they get booed (which they do all too often), I get pissed. It seems like a lot of these booers only want to see a quick knock-out! Believe me, I love these type of fights too. BUT I love MMA (MIXED martial arts). It's not all about the knock-out. Sometimes I find it much more exciting to watch a chess match on the ground than two guys throwing haymakers!

And quite frankly, if someone takes someone down all fight and WINS, tough crap to the other guy! It's his fault that he had NO takedown defense.

Just my opinion.
wolfman
2/15/08 2:39:26PM

Posted by npayant

Man, this discussion of "boring" fighters always gets to me (as does all of the booers at events). If a couple of fighters are on the ground doing some GnP and they get booed (which they do all too often), I get pissed. It seems like a lot of these booers only want to see a quick knock-out! Believe me, I love these type of fights too. BUT I love MMA (MIXED martial arts). It's not all about the knock-out. Sometimes I find it much more exciting to watch a chess match on the ground than two guys throwing haymakers!

And quite frankly, if someone takes someone down all fight and WINS, tough crap to the other guy! It's his fault that he had NO takedown defense.

Just my opinion.



Very true and a good opinion at that. When I started watching MMA about 9 years ago, I was still young and immature and I used to get bored sometimes when the fights would hit the ground. Now, I love technical ground battles and appreciate skilled submission victories ALMOST as much as I appreciate a beautiful KO. If you just want to watch stand up fighting, than watch boxing. This is not directed at the TS or anyone for that matter, I just know that there are still a lot of fans who are just looking for the quick KO's. Nothing wrong with a quick KO as already
mentioned by npayant, yet I think it is best to admire the sport as a whole. Tried to give props to you npayant, but have to spread the goodness...
disturbed_fighter
2/15/08 2:41:25PM
its a real sport. . . .not wrestling. if they win, let em fight
xchickox
2/15/08 2:57:08PM
yeah i think people forget that mma is a sport, not entertainment, yeah we wanna see entertaining fights and i'm sure fighters want to entertain the fans but there are some fighters who people might think are boring who are the best in the world (i.e. sean sherk, i love watching him but lots of people say he is boring, but he is one of, if not the best in the world) the ufc should not do anything with so called 'boring' fighters and should just let them fight there fight
stock
2/15/08 3:15:06PM
I would say make all fight contracts with a "finishing" bonus in them (kind of like they do on TUF).

I have been saying that boxing should be doing this for years.

Most fights now are usually (for example) $20K to show & $20K to win.

How about $15K to show, $15K to win, and $10K to finish.
Fighters number one priority would still be to get the win, however a little something extra to put someone away.
woodmo
2/15/08 3:30:45PM
Look- I'll equate this to baseball and football.

Some people want to watch a 1-0 pitching jewell baseball game, some people want to see a 9-6 slugfest.

Some people want to watch a 6-3 defensive football game, some want to watch a 42-30 barn burner. It comes down to personal preference.

There is nothing wrong with a technical, chess match fight. That is mma, you are not guarenteed anything but two guys (or girls) trying to beat each other up, by whatever means they have at their disposal.

NatedawgThaM
2/15/08 4:54:23PM

Posted by gskyprodigy

......my definition of boring.......is lay and pray.....does that clear things up from where I stand as a fan.....?



Who is LNP that you think is boring? I like wrestling and love watching it used in MMA. People like to win and they have there own way of winning and they use it. You know not everybody can put there selves at risk with no technique and throw like caveman like Tank, Kimbo, Houston, and Chuck.

I do enjoy those type of fights but it's called MMA(Mixed Martial Arts) Every single style of fighting is involved. If you just want to watch a stand up fight, go watch boxing or Kickboxing which is were and what I watch when I want to see that type of fight.
Mastodon2
2/15/08 6:06:21PM
Lay and Pray bores the hell out of me. If a fighter wants to wrestle, he should use it to set up and oppertunity to end the fight, instead of just holding a guy down and clock watching. Same for striking though, if two guys are just circling and not really engaging, thats just as bad.

Yellow card is the answer, its one of the main reasons (imo) that Pride fights were wildly more exciting than UFC ones, because fighters tried to finish. It stopped lay and Pray mostly, and it was also used against tentative strikers.
BlazinSaddle
2/15/08 7:28:42PM
i dont mind option C and D, i do understand where your coming from its not fun to watch sherk manhump a guy for 5 rounds, they should imply option E put in a lay and pray clock like EliteXC has, theres is 15 secs. i think it should be 30-60 secs, but like somebody else said its always a matter of opinion some fruit is going to like sherk fight because he just holds him there or "the control he has on the ground" or whatever the sherk fans excuse is idk, personally i like sherk all the fighters boring or not it gives the UFC a sort of colorful taste of all types of fighting and to see if one style can be beat by another, its my opinion that boring fighters dont make it that far anyway especially when they step up and fight A level competition, so i say let whoever in the UFC regardless of if they bring in an audience or not, even hearing that brock was going to fight didnt stir my thoughts on level of competition anyway, many thought lesner was gonna destroy mir and he got outclassed on the ground by a more experienced fighter. its not as easy as what to do with boring fighters because opinions are like buttholes everybody has got one, sometimes dana makes his decisions on if there boring or not ala the arlovski situation with is kinda weird since hes one of the most beloved fighters in the UFC, yet many many people boo sherk in his fights and if they see him and he gets a title shot right away, i guess i dont understand the mind of dana white and i dont really care, i just like watching MMA not just the UFC
ufcboss
2/15/08 8:45:26PM
I sometimes wish that the action would pick up in a fight, But I wouldnt change a thing.
15 or even the rare 25 minutes isn't that long, I agree we all love a big KO but subs are exciting as hell!
I think round times a near perfect in MMA. If you can manage to hold someone down for a whole fight, Then you probally should win it.

Wouldn't change a thing.



Rush
2/15/08 9:03:35PM
In most cases, determining a boring fight/fighter is very subjective. I sure as hell wouldn't listen to the fans in general. Most of them wouldn't know a good fight if they were fighters.

Boring fights is something that will not go away. I don't think a penalty system will do much if anything to prevent it. I think the refs should be more keen on identifying and dealing with issues like fence grabbing, illegal blows, etc.

The UFC already implements bonuses for best fight, best sub and best ko of the night. I think this is an excellent way to encourage going for broke. It works well for the guys that do not get paid much, but it is a problem for guys that make a big purse going into the fight.

Notice that most of the complaints about boring fights involve higher tier fighters? (Sherk, Sylvia, Arlovski, etc) IMO, most of the boring fights involving new guys happen because they have less experience. You cannot penalize them for that.

Right now I think the UFC is doing the best they can to encourage fighters to fight hard. Maybe they could modify their rewards system a little, but I haven't given it that much thought as to how they can improve it.
PaleHorse
2/15/08 9:16:16PM
I've said many times before that I think that the old PRIDE rules were the best, fighters were encouraged to finish fights rather thn ride them out due to the fight going to a draw if the fight wasn't finished in the given time. I think that under most circumstances that third number in a fighters record for draws and no-contest fights would show a fighters ability to entertain. I absolutely understand that fights are capable of entertainment when going the distance, but for the most part, fans want a finish. I find it incredibly ironic how the UFC seeks out and market boring fighters like Yushin Okami while their more prominent fighters are joining EliteXC, Nick Diaz, Robbie Lawler, Frank Shamrock, Cung Le, and Kimbo Slice (despite what Dana White says about him, you give a powerful guy like Kimbo some time with Bas Rutten and you'll get an All-Star.) Meanwhile the UFC adds more and more fresh marketable talent whie in many situations forcing out their popular fighters with bogus contract circumstances(he's ******* Fedor, do what he says and sign him), bad decision making in matchups (Tito Rashad.) The UFC needs to take some extra steps in crossing with other organizations more, I think that their biggest issue is that the ranking systems are so screwed up just because the UFC is so possessive over its fighters, you can't have battles occur between the top boys sometimes. What they have to do is suck it up and just deal with a cross promotion, our best fighters, your best fighters, this I think would eliminate a lot of the more boring side of UFC's arsenal and establish more competition.
cloud301336
2/15/08 9:36:27PM
Man baseball is 1000 times more boring IMO. mma intertaning to me no matter what
DevonFoxy
2/15/08 10:46:23PM
Yea i think Joe Rogan put it best when he said Baseball was a million times more boring (though i disagree with him and enjoy baseball quite a lot.) I feel if a fighter can control the fight like a Kos or a Frankie Edgar let them do it. you may find it boring but it does take a lot of skill to control a guy from top position and avoid submission at the same time. People seem to think all they have to do is sit there and hold on for dear life which is most definitely not the case IMO.
telnights
2/16/08 3:47:31AM

Posted by candynuts

What is boring to some is not boring to all.... some exciting fighters have boring fights... do you release them then?



I will 2nd that!
cmill21
2/16/08 3:54:30AM
I think they should try the yellow card as mastadon said. It doesn't descriminate, you get it when you pin and hold someone against the cage, as well as the LnP. It also affects the most important thing to alot of people and that's money. So I think that would be the best way of discouraging the boring ways of grinding out a fight. I would just like to say, that if the refs are properly trained on how the UFC wants them to use a yellow card it would make it even better.
Pookie
2/16/08 4:02:25AM

Posted by cmill21

I think they should try the yellow card as mastadon said. It doesn't descriminate, you get it when you pin and hold someone against the cage, as well as the LnP. It also affects the most important thing to alot of people and that's money. So I think that would be the best way of discouraging the boring ways of grinding out a fight. I would just like to say, that if the refs are properly trained on how the UFC wants them to use a yellow card it would make it even better.



the last part is very important to make it work.

The worst thing is a fighter getting his pay deducted for no apparent reason at all (Rampage vs. Randleman)
Jackelope
2/16/08 5:31:21AM

Posted by BlazinSaddle

i dont mind option C and D, i do understand where your coming from its not fun to watch sherk manhump a guy for 5 rounds, they should imply option E put in a lay and pray clock like EliteXC has, theres is 15 secs. i think it should be 30-60 secs, but like somebody else said its always a matter of opinion some fruit is going to like sherk fight because he just holds him there or "the control he has on the ground" or whatever the sherk fans excuse is idk, personally i like sherk all the fighters boring or not it gives the UFC a sort of colorful taste of all types of fighting and to see if one style can be beat by another, its my opinion that boring fighters dont make it that far anyway especially when they step up and fight A level competition, so i say let whoever in the UFC regardless of if they bring in an audience or not, even hearing that brock was going to fight didnt stir my thoughts on level of competition anyway, many thought lesner was gonna destroy mir and he got outclassed on the ground by a more experienced fighter. its not as easy as what to do with boring fighters because opinions are like buttholes everybody has got one, sometimes dana makes his decisions on if there boring or not ala the arlovski situation with is kinda weird since hes one of the most beloved fighters in the UFC, yet many many people boo sherk in his fights and if they see him and he gets a title shot right away, i guess i dont understand the mind of dana white and i dont really care, i just like watching MMA not just the UFC




Dude... I don't mean to get way off topic here, but you must have been SSSSSSSTTTTTTTTOONNNNNNNEEEEDDDDDDD when you wrote this. I dunno, it just screamed at me that you probably were when you wrote it haha

Oh, and to keep it on target I also think the Yellow card was part of what made Pride fights awesome. The only problem was that in Pride sometimes it seemed like fighters gained favoritism and didn't get them when they deserved them, or vice versa. There were too many B.S. yellow cards thrown.
Franklinfan47
2/16/08 6:11:35PM
I think the ufc's policy is good as is. Boring fighters should be invited back but on the undercard until the fighter kicks it up a notch.
warglory
2/16/08 8:59:57PM
As has already been said, MMA is a sport and fighters win by any means necessary within the rules allowed. If we start penalizing fighters because they use a successful strategy that might not be the most exciting, that defeats the purpose of moving MMA beyond its early days of entertainment for ratings. You have to accept all things legal in sports for competitors to win.
gskyprodigy
2/18/08 1:18:15PM
atleast some1 understands where I'm coming from.....


..........is wrestling considered a discipline of Martial Arts?
NatedawgThaM
2/18/08 4:35:41PM
If you don't like it watch boxing or kickboxing. Quit complaining. Wrestling and GNP/LNP is just as hard and has just as much technique as kickboxing and striking and Muay Thai.

Don't be disrespecting the wrestling.
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