If the next 'big things' actually worked out

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ChrisSabal
5/22/12 8:33:44PM
so if the next 'big things' actually worked out who would be the champions or contenders today? Couple names I could throw out there are Karo and Vera.
Twenty20Dollars
5/22/12 8:51:16PM
Houston Alexander
Josh Grispi
Evan Dunham - maybe
Mike Swick
papercut
5/22/12 9:18:48PM
I'd add todd duffee to the list above
FastKnockout
5/22/12 9:21:22PM

Posted by Twenty20Dollars

Houston Alexander
Josh Grispi
Evan Dunham - maybe
Mike Swick



When I first started watching the sport Mike Swick had a Korean Zombie type of following. Everybody loved how exciting he was.

Houston Alexander was the first to come to mind. There weren't many who expected him to fall like he did.
Chael_Sonnen
5/22/12 11:28:32PM
Vanderlay
CroCop
Vitor
KungFuMaster
5/22/12 11:54:12PM
I'm projecting here and I will say Pettis. Just give me 6 to 18 months to make this happen
KungFuMaster
5/22/12 11:55:14PM
Same for Melendez.
jae_1833
5/23/12 12:23:49AM
Are we talking about past fails that ended up being over hyped, or current fighters that are being heavily hyped now?
kopower
5/23/12 10:02:11AM

Posted by papercut

I'd add todd duffee to the list above



Duffee for sure. It didn't take long for his hype train to get derailed.
KungFuMaster
5/23/12 11:10:06AM
How can I forget?

Brock Lesnar
mrsmiley
5/23/12 11:21:00AM

Posted by KungFuMaster

How can I forget?

Brock Lesnar



Lets go back to the past when talking about the future.

Brock
KungFuMaster
5/23/12 12:19:31PM

Posted by mrsmiley


Posted by KungFuMaster

How can I forget?

Brock Lesnar



Lets go back to the past when talking about the future.

Brock



I read it - so are you agreeing with me?
postman
5/23/12 12:49:40PM
The top of the sport is to hold the belt. Their are plenty of amazing fighters who never got their hands around one. Brock did I disliked him during his entire career but to say he didn't live up to the hype seems silly to me.
lohmann
5/23/12 1:30:35PM
Gabriel Gonzaga
Kevin Randleman
Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou
David Terrell
Brandon Vera

Would add more but this list already saddens me.
Twenty20Dollars
5/23/12 1:59:49PM

Posted by lohmann

Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou
David Terrell




Those are good ones. I was trying to search for ex-UFC guys but couldn't think of many.


Luiz Cane possibly.
KungFuMaster
5/23/12 2:04:40PM

Posted by postman

The top of the sport is to hold the belt. Their are plenty of amazing fighters who never got their hands around one. Brock did I disliked him during his entire career but to say he didn't live up to the hype seems silly to me.



Brock was presented a title shot as a gift. He defeated much smaller guys except for Carwin but Carwin humbled him and the rest was history.
kopower
5/23/12 3:16:37PM

Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by postman

The top of the sport is to hold the belt. Their are plenty of amazing fighters who never got their hands around one. Brock did I disliked him during his entire career but to say he didn't live up to the hype seems silly to me.



Brock was presented a title shot as a gift. He defeated much smaller guys except for Carwin but Carwin pummeled then humbled him and the rest was history.



Fixed. You can also add pretty much any Asian fighter that had any hype behind them. Gomi, Kid, Hioki, although Hatsu has won his first two fights, if you count Roop
postman
5/23/12 4:04:57PM

Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by postman

The top of the sport is to hold the belt. Their are plenty of amazing fighters who never got their hands around one. Brock did I disliked him during his entire career but to say he didn't live up to the hype seems silly to me.



Brock was presented a title shot as a gift. He defeated much smaller guys except for Carwin but Carwin humbled him and the rest was history.



So what? He beat Hearring Couture Mir and Carwin. He was never given a slouch of a fight. Did they find better fighters? Sure they did. What more do you want from the guy? No matter what you want to say about his path he still won the title from the actual champ and defended 2 times. How many LHW couldn't defend their title even one time? Was he a raging sucess like ever pimple headed WWE fan thought he would be? No Was he a complete flop like most hardcores thought he would be? Absolutly not.
postman
5/23/12 4:06:14PM

Posted by Twenty20Dollars


Posted by lohmann

Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou
David Terrell




Those are good ones. I was trying to search for ex-UFC guys but couldn't think of many.


Luiz Cane possibly.



Yeah those 3 a very good IMO

Kendal Grove
grappler0000
5/23/12 4:06:27PM

Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by postman

The top of the sport is to hold the belt. Their are plenty of amazing fighters who never got their hands around one. Brock did I disliked him during his entire career but to say he didn't live up to the hype seems silly to me.



Brock was presented a title shot as a gift. He defeated much smaller guys except for Carwin but Carwin humbled him and the rest was history.



Well, that's one way to explain capturing the title and defending it twice, while tying the UFC record for HW defenses. I guess it's all in what you're trying to sell.

Since it was such an easy task, we'll compare Brock's opponents to the others that have achieved the same feat:

Brock - Couture, Mir, Carwin
Sylvia - Arlovski, Arlovski, Monson
Arlovski - Sylvia, Eilers, Buentello
Couture - Randleman, Rizzo, Rizzo

Not too shabby for a guy in his 4th, 5th, and 6th pro fights...without any amateur fights to claim. FTR though, Couture was the only one that was drastically smaller, but that was actually Randy's strategy and he intentionally got as small as he could in order to gain a speed advantage against Brock.
KungFuMaster
5/23/12 5:38:15PM

Posted by kopower


Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by postman

The top of the sport is to hold the belt. Their are plenty of amazing fighters who never got their hands around one. Brock did I disliked him during his entire career but to say he didn't live up to the hype seems silly to me.



Brock was presented a title shot as a gift. He defeated much smaller guys except for Carwin but Carwin pummeled then humbled him and the rest was history.



Fixed. You can also add pretty much any Asian fighter that had any hype behind them. Gomi, Kid, Hioki, although Hatsu has won his first two fights, if you count Roop



I agree about the Asian fighters. However, the ones who were not hyped like Okami and the Korean Zombie - they seem to be doing just fine.
KungFuMaster
5/23/12 6:06:20PM

Posted by grappler0000



Well, that's one way to explain capturing the title and defending it twice, while tying the UFC record for HW defenses. I guess it's all in what you're trying to sell.

Since it was such an easy task, we'll compare Brock's opponents to the others that have achieved the same feat:

Brock - Couture, Mir, Carwin
Sylvia - Arlovski, Arlovski, Monson
Arlovski - Sylvia, Eilers, Buentello
Couture - Randleman, Rizzo, Rizzo

Not too shabby for a guy in his 4th, 5th, and 6th pro fights...without any amateur fights to claim. FTR though, Couture was the only one that was drastically smaller, but that was actually Randy's strategy and he intentionally got as small as he could in order to gain a speed advantage against Brock.




Posted by postman



So what? He beat Hearring Couture Mir and Carwin. He was never given a slouch of a fight. Did they find better fighters? Sure they did. What more do you want from the guy? No matter what you want to say about his path he still won the title from the actual champ and defended 2 times. How many LHW couldn't defend their title even one time? Was he a raging sucess like ever pimple headed WWE fan thought he would be? No Was he a complete flop like most hardcores thought he would be? Absolutly not.



You guys are missing the point of my argument.

Back in days of Randy Couture and Pedro Rizzo, the hype machine was almost non-existent. Contrary to that, Brock received an overzealous amount of hype when he entered the ufc>>> and as soon as they put somebody with a respectable size against him, what happened? Exactly - he got pummeled and it was the start of the end for him.

I am not here to dispute the facts which you two seem to be passionate about. Facts can be verified. I'm here to evaluate the effectiveness of Brock Lesnar.

Was he effective against smaller guys? Of course - it was like taking candy from a baby.

Was he effective against guys close to his own size (Carwin)? Pitiful - and you and I both know he got lucky with that submission win.

Lastly, I don't know why Brock is being compared to other past HW champions - as if making the comparison will elevate him to new status or change the facts. We are talking about Brock and the hype machine - and how he did or did not live up to it >>>and IMO, he did not. As soon as the road got tough, he packed up and left. I could have sworn it was, "When the going gets tough, the tough gets going." The saying must have changed a generation or two after mine.
Pookie
5/23/12 6:11:36PM
Goran Reljic
george112
5/23/12 8:25:45PM
Dan Hardy
Mike Brown
BlueSkiesBurn
5/23/12 9:24:11PM

Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by grappler0000



Well, that's one way to explain capturing the title and defending it twice, while tying the UFC record for HW defenses. I guess it's all in what you're trying to sell.

Since it was such an easy task, we'll compare Brock's opponents to the others that have achieved the same feat:

Brock - Couture, Mir, Carwin
Sylvia - Arlovski, Arlovski, Monson
Arlovski - Sylvia, Eilers, Buentello
Couture - Randleman, Rizzo, Rizzo

Not too shabby for a guy in his 4th, 5th, and 6th pro fights...without any amateur fights to claim. FTR though, Couture was the only one that was drastically smaller, but that was actually Randy's strategy and he intentionally got as small as he could in order to gain a speed advantage against Brock.




Posted by postman



So what? He beat Hearring Couture Mir and Carwin. He was never given a slouch of a fight. Did they find better fighters? Sure they did. What more do you want from the guy? No matter what you want to say about his path he still won the title from the actual champ and defended 2 times. How many LHW couldn't defend their title even one time? Was he a raging sucess like ever pimple headed WWE fan thought he would be? No Was he a complete flop like most hardcores thought he would be? Absolutly not.



You guys are missing the point of my argument.

Back in days of Randy Couture and Pedro Rizzo, the hype machine was almost non-existent. Contrary to that, Brock received an overzealous amount of hype when he entered the ufc>>> and as soon as they put somebody with a respectable size against him, what happened? Exactly - he got pummeled and it was the start of the end for him.

I am not here to dispute the facts which you two seem to be passionate about. Facts can be verified. I'm here to evaluate the effectiveness of Brock Lesnar.

Was he effective against smaller guys? Of course - it was like taking candy from a baby.

Was he effective against guys close to his own size (Carwin)? Pitiful - and you and I both know he got lucky with that submission win.

Lastly, I don't know why Brock is being compared to other past HW champions - as if making the comparison will elevate him to new status or change the facts. We are talking about Brock and the hype machine - and how he did or did not live up to it >>>and IMO, he did not. As soon as the road got tough, he packed up and left. I could have sworn it was, "When the going gets tough, the tough gets going." The saying must have changed a generation or two after mine.



I agree with both of you. Lesnar did retire when things started heading downhill for him, but he also had medical issues. I'm inclined to believe that the real reason behind Lesnar's retirement lies somewhere in-between "I realized how good some of these guys are and I am not likely to beat them" and "my health is failing me and I am missing a lot of quality time with my family."

If it was just the health and family issue, Lesnar wouldn't have quit Minnesota Martial Arts, but as you heard Nik Lentz say in our interview with him, Lesnar doesn't even come around anymore and nobody has talked to him.

Most fighters that retire due to health and family issues retire because they CAN train and be around the sport, but don't have to put their families through the rigors of travel and camps. Lesnar flat quit the entire sport and anything to do with it. His old camp hasn't even spoken to him. That, to me, sounds like the actions of a broken man.

So, I agree with both of you. Lesnar made some impressive accomplishments and did tie the record for UFC HW title defenses, but he also bailed when the time to show what you're truly made of came around. He didn't just bail on the sport, he bailed on his old coaches, teammates, and training partners.
cowcatcher
5/23/12 11:07:44PM

Posted by KungFuMaster

You guys are missing the point of my argument.

Back in days of Randy Couture and Pedro Rizzo, the hype machine was almost non-existent. Contrary to that, Brock received an overzealous amount of hype when he entered the ufc>>> and as soon as they put somebody with a respectable size against him, what happened? Exactly - he got pummeled and it was the start of the end for him.

I am not here to dispute the facts which you two seem to be passionate about. Facts can be verified. I'm here to evaluate the effectiveness of Brock Lesnar.



Do you mean that fight against Carwin that he won? WTF man, he won the fight, so for someone that supposedly is presenting the facts, you sure don't seem to take them into consideration at all here.


Was he effective against smaller guys? Of course - it was like taking candy from a baby.

Was he effective against guys close to his own size (Carwin)? Pitiful - and you and I both know he got lucky with that submission win.



There is nothing lucky about making a man with the size or talent of Carwin tap out. You could try a hundred times with a horseshoe up your ass and a boa made out of four leaf clovers and luck still wouldn't be on your side. Not once.

Plus if size was that big of a deal Bob Sapp would be a perennial contender, and Tim Sylvia wouldn't be begging for a job in the organization he held the belt in multiple times.


Lastly, I don't know why Brock is being compared to other past HW champions - as if making the comparison will elevate him to new status or change the facts. We are talking about Brock and the hype machine - and how he did or did not live up to it >>>and IMO, he did not. As soon as the road got tough, he packed up and left. I could have sworn it was, "When the going gets tough, the tough gets going." The saying must have changed a generation or two after mine.



No one in the short history of the sport has made such a huge impact in such a short time and he did it by fighting the very best in the world every time he was in the octagon. Plus in EVERY single sport on the planet, fans compare competitors. This is nothing new, and it will not be stopping any time soon. I dunno man, I'm not trying to pick on you at all KFM, but you tend to see things with blinders on sometimes. I hope this didn't come off as aggressive, I type the exact way I talk, and there's no angry or condemning tone in these words, I'm just a little flabbergasted.
cowcatcher
5/23/12 11:17:16PM

Posted by cowcatcher

I type the exact way I talk, and there's no angry or condemning tone in these words, I'm just a little flabbergasted.



Exception being I don't usually say flabbergasted.
KungFuMaster
5/24/12 2:18:31AM

Posted by cowcatcher



Do you mean that fight against Carwin that he won? WTF man, he won the fight, so for someone that supposedly is presenting the facts, you sure don't seem to take them into consideration at all here.



I never said Lesnar lost. Look, Carwin blasted Lesnar with the atomic bomb and the only reason Lesnar survived was because he scurried and hid in a basement. Most people would consider that a sign of submission but whatever - the ref let the fight continued. When I first watched this fight I thought Lesnar was a wimp and could not take a punch but then after watching it a few more times, I was beginning to understand what Lesnar was up to all along. He was using the rope a dope technique and lured Carwin right into his trap. You see - when Lesnar curled into the fetal position, he was not hurt at all. He was merely playing possum - and I know this because I watch Animal Planet. I have seen many predatory creatures orchestrate this sort of technique before and I was amazed Brock Lesnar was able to dig deep and come up with such primitive and yet effective technique. Who would have thought this multi-billion year old technique would work in a modernized human combat situation? I certainly did not. Props to Lesnar.




There is nothing lucky about making a man with the size or talent of Carwin tap out. You could try a hundred times with a horseshoe up your ass and a boa made out of four leaf clovers and luck still wouldn't be on your side. Not once.

Plus if size was that big of a deal Bob Sapp would be a perennial contender, and Tim Sylvia wouldn't be begging for a job in the organization he held the belt in multiple times

.

Bob Sapp is not a contender because he has yet to discover the ancient technique of rope a dope.





No one in the short history of the sport has made such a huge impact in such a short time and he did it by fighting the very best in the world every time he was in the octagon. Plus in EVERY single sport on the planet, fans compare competitors. This is nothing new, and it will not be stopping any time soon. I dunno man, I'm not trying to pick on you at all KFM, but you tend to see things with blinders on sometimes. I hope this didn't come off as aggressive, I type the exact way I talk, and there's no angry or condemning tone in these words, I'm just a little flabbergasted.


You make it sound like Lesnar gave birth to MMA. That is like saying Columbus discovered the new world.
postman
5/24/12 8:35:45AM

Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by grappler0000



Well, that's one way to explain capturing the title and defending it twice, while tying the UFC record for HW defenses. I guess it's all in what you're trying to sell.

Since it was such an easy task, we'll compare Brock's opponents to the others that have achieved the same feat:

Brock - Couture, Mir, Carwin
Sylvia - Arlovski, Arlovski, Monson
Arlovski - Sylvia, Eilers, Buentello
Couture - Randleman, Rizzo, Rizzo

Not too shabby for a guy in his 4th, 5th, and 6th pro fights...without any amateur fights to claim. FTR though, Couture was the only one that was drastically smaller, but that was actually Randy's strategy and he intentionally got as small as he could in order to gain a speed advantage against Brock.




Posted by postman



So what? He beat Hearring Couture Mir and Carwin. He was never given a slouch of a fight. Did they find better fighters? Sure they did. What more do you want from the guy? No matter what you want to say about his path he still won the title from the actual champ and defended 2 times. How many LHW couldn't defend their title even one time? Was he a raging sucess like ever pimple headed WWE fan thought he would be? No Was he a complete flop like most hardcores thought he would be? Absolutly not.




Was he effective against smaller guys? Of course - it was like taking candy from a baby.




I would say JDS is much smaller then him even Cain isn't as big. Cain already has the win and JDS more then likley would win that fight.

As for the Hype machine at the moment he ranks as one of the the top HW UFC champions of all time. YOu can't take that from him. To be honest if you look back at what people in the know where saying about him very few even gave him a shot. He far exceded my expectations. What was your thoughts on him before the first Frank Mir fight? Did you think he would wreck everyone and hold the belt for 5 years? I'm asking only because i wonder if this is where we are so far off on this subject.
Boo_Radley21
5/24/12 9:43:18AM

Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by grappler0000



Well, that's one way to explain capturing the title and defending it twice, while tying the UFC record for HW defenses. I guess it's all in what you're trying to sell.

Since it was such an easy task, we'll compare Brock's opponents to the others that have achieved the same feat:

Brock - Couture, Mir, Carwin
Sylvia - Arlovski, Arlovski, Monson
Arlovski - Sylvia, Eilers, Buentello
Couture - Randleman, Rizzo, Rizzo

Not too shabby for a guy in his 4th, 5th, and 6th pro fights...without any amateur fights to claim. FTR though, Couture was the only one that was drastically smaller, but that was actually Randy's strategy and he intentionally got as small as he could in order to gain a speed advantage against Brock.




Posted by postman



So what? He beat Hearring Couture Mir and Carwin. He was never given a slouch of a fight. Did they find better fighters? Sure they did. What more do you want from the guy? No matter what you want to say about his path he still won the title from the actual champ and defended 2 times. How many LHW couldn't defend their title even one time? Was he a raging sucess like ever pimple headed WWE fan thought he would be? No Was he a complete flop like most hardcores thought he would be? Absolutly not.



You guys are missing the point of my argument.

Back in days of Randy Couture and Pedro Rizzo, the hype machine was almost non-existent. Contrary to that, Brock received an overzealous amount of hype when he entered the ufc>>> and as soon as they put somebody with a respectable size against him, what happened? Exactly - he got pummeled and it was the start of the end for him.

I am not here to dispute the facts which you two seem to be passionate about. Facts can be verified. I'm here to evaluate the effectiveness of Brock Lesnar.

Was he effective against smaller guys? Of course - it was like taking candy from a baby.

Was he effective against guys close to his own size (Carwin)? Pitiful - and you and I both know he got lucky with that submission win.

Lastly, I don't know why Brock is being compared to other past HW champions - as if making the comparison will elevate him to new status or change the facts. We are talking about Brock and the hype machine - and how he did or did not live up to it >>>and IMO, he did not. As soon as the road got tough, he packed up and left. I could have sworn it was, "When the going gets tough, the tough gets going." The saying must have changed a generation or two after mine.




your disregard of what brock did is mind fucking me
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