Who has the better all around ground game Fedor or Randy

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chubbud22
3/22/08 12:11:39AM
Randys Wrestling is great,but how do you think it would match up to Fedors Sambo/jits?
NatedawgThaM
3/22/08 12:30:05AM
Fedor pretty obvious IMO. Randy's not the wrestler your thinking of man. He's a grecco wrestler, not amateur. He holds you up against the cage and elbows you to wear you down then he'll take you down late for the GNP finish. So he's not really a ground expert.

Fedor's submissions are way better since Randy does not submit, and his submission defense is ok. But Fedor all about the ground while that's not really Randy's game. IMO This fight will be determined if Fedor can stay away from the cage and not get elbowed since getting cut is his weakness. Fedor is better in every aspect except wrestling but as long as he keeps circling he'll be find since Randy does not shoot on you, he clinches you.
cmill21
3/22/08 1:34:50AM
I give it to Fedor. Sambo is great for MMA IMO, his stand up is praised by guys like Ernesto Hoost, his sub game is very very good. I don't really know how there could be a legitimate argument against this for well roundedness, but i'm more then happy to see one.
WhiteWidow
3/22/08 1:39:34AM
fedor > everybody

cage = ring (in the case of randy vs fedor and most fights)

therefore this match is pointless and over marketed
grappler0000
3/22/08 1:42:38AM

Posted by NatedawgThaM

Fedor pretty obvious IMO. Randy's not the wrestler your thinking of man. He's a grecco wrestler, not amateur. He holds you up against the cage and elbows you to wear you down then he'll take you down late for the GNP finish. So he's not really a ground expert.

Fedor's submissions are way better since Randy does not submit, and his submission defense is ok. But Fedor all about the ground while that's not really Randy's game. IMO This fight will be determined if Fedor can stay away from the cage and not get elbowed since getting cut is his weakness. Fedor is better in every aspect except wrestling but as long as he keeps circling he'll be find since Randy does not shoot on you, he clinches you.



As with most Greco-Roman wrestlers, Randy actually has a strong collegiate background as well. He took 2nd at nationals behind Mark Kerr. Randy can shoot or takedown from the clinch...depends on which style benefits him for a particular fight. Couture's submission game is actually quite strong these days. He prefers to GnP, but he can submit guys if he chose to. If you take a look at the Van Arsdale fight, he chose to submit him, since he would be tough to hold down long enough for the TKO. Randy's biggest weakness when he began fighting was his submission game, but he has improved quite a bit...he has not lost via technical submission in a half dozen years or longer. Anyone who can go to a draw against Jacare in submission wrestling is doing just fine IMO. With that said, Fedor's submission game is on another level. I give Couture the edge in ground control, but Fedor the advantage in submissions. At any rate...if Couture is not a ground expert, then I'm not sure who is.
Pookie
3/22/08 1:44:52AM
Well roundedness...
Fedor.
He has some of the best submissions, sub defense, strikes, clinch, transition and heart in the HW division.

I would honestly say hes top 2 in each and every one of those categories, in the HW division.
hippysmacker
3/22/08 2:56:43AM
I'll take Fedor. As much has Rndy has improved in his overall game, especially sub D & standup, I stll think Fedor would sub him on the ground or KO him on the feet. If they were on the ground and Fedor was on top, I think Fedor would get the GnP stoppage as well. One other thing, even though Randy does use the cage extremely well to his advantage, I think a cage would only help someone with Fedor's GnP style too. So I would take Fedor by 2nd or 3rd round stoppage.
Nightmare27
3/22/08 4:05:55AM

Posted by NatedawgThaM

Fedor pretty obvious IMO. Randy's not the wrestler your thinking of man. He's a grecco wrestler, not amateur. He holds you up against the cage and elbows you to wear you down then he'll take you down late for the GNP finish. So he's not really a ground expert.

Fedor's submissions are way better since Randy does not submit, and his submission defense is ok. But Fedor all about the ground while that's not really Randy's game. IMO This fight will be determined if Fedor can stay away from the cage and not get elbowed since getting cut is his weakness. Fedor is better in every aspect except wrestling but as long as he keeps circling he'll be find since Randy does not shoot on you, he clinches you.

I know that I disagree with everything that you say, but I guess that its just crap. If Randy can earn a draw with Jacare in a submission match, then I doubt that he is going to get caught by Fedor. Not to mention he shot on both Silvia and Gonzaga, and its not as if Gonzaga has no ground game, right? Tim Silvia's takedown defense is pretty piss poor too, huh? Its just disrespectful to Randy's wrestling and ground game as a whole thats all.
Pookie
3/22/08 4:10:47AM
he didnt shoot in on gonzaga...
he held him in the clinch and the takedowns were from slams.

Jacare is a MW...
Nightmare27
3/22/08 4:26:48AM
My bad, on the Gonzaga comment. I could have swore I remembered a double leg, no matter. He definetly shot in on Tim. As for Jacare being a MW, Randy isnt exactly a big HW and fought at LHW. I am not sure of their weights for the Sub X event but I dont think it is as large of a weight difference it would seem. Regardless, I still disagree with the lack of respect for Randy's ground game as a whole.
Nightmare27
3/22/08 4:29:47AM
All of this being said, I am not saying that Randy has a better ground game. Where one fighter has strengths the other has weaknesses, to tough to make a call. Imagine what Fedor's elbows from the guard would look like, ouch!
Gipper
3/22/08 1:19:06PM
hey couture is one of my guys but i'd have to say fedor.
coldchillin
3/22/08 4:27:15PM
Fedor.
BIGKAT
3/23/08 1:50:27AM
What would this fight prove?

Who's the best in the world? I don't see how that could be when Liddell KO'd Randy twice, so if Randy is one of the two best fighters in the world (the other being Fedor) The what does that make Liddell since he KO'd Randy twice?

The best best?
Pookie
3/23/08 4:40:13AM

Posted by BIGKAT

What would this fight prove?

Who's the best in the world? I don't see how that could be when Liddell KO'd Randy twice, so if Randy is one of the two best fighters in the world (the other being Fedor) The what does that make Liddell since he KO'd Randy twice?

The best best?



well in all fairness randys fighting ability at HW seems to surpass that of which he accomplished at LHW. Plus Liddell is a pretty hard stylistic match-up for couture... just like rampage is for liddell.
telnights
3/23/08 5:05:23AM

Posted by grappler0000
As with most Greco-Roman wrestlers, Randy actually has a strong collegiate background as well. He took 2nd at nationals behind Mark Kerr. Randy can shoot or takedown from the clinch...depends on which style benefits him for a particular fight. Couture's submission game is actually quite strong these days. He prefers to GnP, but he can submit guys if he chose to. If you take a look at the Van Arsdale fight, he chose to submit him, since he would be tough to hold down long enough for the TKO. Randy's biggest weakness when he began fighting was his submission game, but he has improved quite a bit...he has not lost via technical submission in a half dozen years or longer. Anyone who can go to a draw against Jacare in submission wrestling is doing just fine IMO. With that said, Fedor's submission game is on another level. I give Couture the edge in ground control, but Fedor the advantage in submissions. At any rate...if Couture is not a ground expert, then I'm not sure who is.



I still would have to take Fedor because I think he would sub Randy in the end.
PaleHorse
3/31/08 11:52:37AM

Posted by BIGKAT

What would this fight prove?

Who's the best in the world? I don't see how that could be when Liddell KO'd Randy twice, so if Randy is one of the two best fighters in the world (the other being Fedor) The what does that make Liddell since he KO'd Randy twice?

The best best?



Chuck has stated he'd be willing to fight for that belt if he can win the LHW belt back.
cowcatcher
3/31/08 12:04:13PM

Posted by NatedawgThaM

Fedor pretty obvious IMO. Randy's not the wrestler your thinking of man. He's a grecco wrestler, not amateur. He holds you up against the cage and elbows you to wear you down then he'll take you down late for the GNP finish. So he's not really a ground expert.

Fedor's submissions are way better since Randy does not submit, and his submission defense is ok. But Fedor all about the ground while that's not really Randy's game. IMO This fight will be determined if Fedor can stay away from the cage and not get elbowed since getting cut is his weakness. Fedor is better in every aspect except wrestling but as long as he keeps circling he'll be find since Randy does not shoot on you, he clinches you.



meeehhhhh....where to start.....greco is amateur wrestling, maybe you are thinking of freestyle when you say ammy, but if you dont know that its probably best not to comment at all. as far as your break down of the two, its pretty close, fedor is the better of the two with some distance when striking, but randy is the better striker inside. randys edge is bigger than fedors here IMO though. on the ground i like randy on top better than fedor in the same position, but fedor is worlds better off the back so fedor is the better of the two here. now randys wrestling isnt limited to greco, any wrestler that is as accomplished as he is knows freestyle as well as greco roman, so just because people always talk about his greco dont believe that he isnt well versed on shooting and leg control techniques. randy gameplans for fighters and uses his best assets that will work against theirs, this isnt to say he cant score a shot, but if he doesnt think its in his best interest he simply wont. fedor has the better in ring ability slightly, but randys planning ability makes this fight close to square for me with only a slight edge to fedor.
Jackelope
3/31/08 1:35:04PM
Fedor brings a pretty damn good gameplan, too.

Randy's control from the top is astounding. See Randy vs. Tim Sylvia for examples of that. Out weighed, out reached, and he still contolled Sylvia on his back. Honestly, pitting that against Fedor's game off his back is something I desperately want to see. When Fedor was similarly matched up with larger opponents he worked from his back and went for the subs. Most notably we have the arm bar vs. Hong Man Choi for example, but I don't consider Hong's sub D anywhere near Sylvia's or Couture's for that matter.

I think the difference maker on the ground between these guys is the transition game. I really do. Fedor's sambo gives him a HUGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEE advantage in this department. Randy has greco and freestyle to his credit, so I'd expect a couple decent wizzers and sweeps, but Fedor can roll, sweep, and wizzer all while working a submission. I see Randy's transition game as mostly focused upon the GnP, and rarely do we see a finish from a transition in Randy's arsenal.
Jackelope
3/31/08 1:36:34PM

Posted by Nightmare27

My bad, on the Gonzaga comment. I could have swore I remembered a double leg, no matter. He definetly shot in on Tim. As for Jacare being a MW, Randy isnt exactly a big HW and fought at LHW. I am not sure of their weights for the Sub X event but I dont think it is as large of a weight difference it would seem. Regardless, I still disagree with the lack of respect for Randy's ground game as a whole.




This the double leg you're talking about?

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

That takedown was more of a changing levels in the clinch and scoop slamming Gonzaga. Probably my favorite MMA moment so far.
tdietel01
4/11/08 9:48:48AM
FEDOR! i think he would win the fight handily!
gsquat
4/11/08 11:03:22AM
Fedor has better everything than Randy (with the exception of physique).
mrsmiley
4/11/08 12:06:36PM
I would say Fedor has got the better ground game all around.
pv3Hpv3p
4/11/08 1:55:14PM
I'd take Fedor in this fight... Randy has shown that he can be TKO'd (Ricco/Barnett) and Fedor has some of the most viscous GnP on the planet... randy has also shown that he can be submitted (Inoue/V.Overeem) and Fedor has 14 submission wins to his credit...

It's tough to say what Randy has over him, IMO Fedor's striking is at least on par if not better than Randy's... And Emelienanko fights very intelligently, so I'm not sure who would have the advantage when it comes to gameplan...

It would be a grecko vs judo clinch matchup after they nullify eachother on the feet... Maybe Randy's diry boxing will get the better of it, but who knows...

Anyways, I'd take Fedor in this fight hands down
jgtribbett
4/11/08 10:18:37PM
i agree that fedor seems to stand out in all areas
AD0123
4/11/08 10:49:01PM
Fedor's is better, Randy's is about control and neutralizing his opponent. Fedor finishes a lot more guys on the ground.
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