Benson Henderson vs Donald Cerrone III

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POLL: Better Main Event
Benson vs Cerrone 71% (22)
Siver vs McGregor 10% (3)
Vitor via Headkick (I don't care) 19% (6)
NikkiNeversleep
1/11/15 5:55:49PM

Does anyone else feel like the third meeting between Donald Cerrone and Benson Henderson is a much better Main Event than Conor McGregor vs Dennis Siver for UFC Fight Night 59?

I mean far from being a mismatch of talent, there's also a lot of history between these two men. McGregor might have growing star power but it seems criminal not to make the trilogy match of "Smooth" and "Cowboy" a 25 minute fight. Their first meeting in WEC at WEC 43 was such a great fight, many hailed it as fight of the year and one of the greatest fights in WEC history, which Benson won via unanimous decision.

Their second match up ended rather quickly when Benson sunk in a very deep guillotine and secured a submission win over Cowboy. That was submission of the night and in a lot of people's opinion submission of the year. Bendo and Cowboy have a great chance to be one of those well remembered triologies in MMA if they put on another great fight like their first meeting.

Cowboy is coming off a huge win over rising star Myles Jury and is riding a 6 fight winning streak, whereas Bendo has recently dropped the ball twice in two huge match ups, once against Anthony Pettis for the Lightweight strap and once in a controversial KO loss to Pettis next title challenger Rafael Dos Anjos.

The history here fuels this fight even more, this time Bendo is on the decline and Cowboy is on the rise. I think with their huge fanbases and past this fight makes a lot more sense for the Main Event than the prematurely gassed up hype train that is Conor McGregor.

No disrespect to McGregor but he's fighting the #10 guy for a titleshot in a division where other men have beaten better competition and were strung along without receiving titleshots they "deserved." Conor has great starpower but I don't think there's as much interest in his fight in the MMA community as there is in a rematch between Bendo and Cowboy.

Thoughts Fight Fans?


LINK
FKA
1/11/15 6:19:47PM
Mcgregor while entertaining isnt a headliner......and i agree cowboy vs bendo should be for 25 mins.
FlashyG
1/11/15 6:28:22PM
I'd rather watch Cerrone vs Henderson as a 5 rounder, but if it was there is a possibility Cerrone wouldn't have taken the fight on just under 2 weeks notice or that the commission wouldn't let him take the fight with so little time since his last fight.
jae_1833
1/11/15 6:39:46PM
Honestly, I am about to sound negative Nancy after telling people not to.
I think if this fight was to happen properly it should have some hype and meaning behind it like a true #1 contender eliminator fight in a 5 round main event. I am soo sick and tired of immediate rematches, unhyped rubber matches, non super fights, and talked their way into title fights...it's going to Piss me off if Conner McGregor vs Dennis Siver really ends up being the Main Event. That's ridiculous.
JLS
1/11/15 7:44:18PM
Henderson/Cerrone III should be the Main Event.

There's no way McGregor and Siver are gonna last the full 25 mins.

I can see why the UFC is having Conor headline though. He's guaranteed the next shot at the Title with a win.
prozacnation1978
1/11/15 8:49:50PM

Posted by JLS1980

Henderson/Cerrone III should be the Main Event.

There's no way McGregor and Siver are gonna last the full 25 mins.

I can see why the UFC is having Conor headline though. He's guaranteed the next shot at the Title with a win.




Agree
Gumby90
1/11/15 9:26:28PM
I don't see how this fight can be less than the full 25.... its an epic rematch.
NikkiNeversleep
1/11/15 9:27:03PM

Posted by JLS1980

Henderson/Cerrone III should be the Main Event.

There's no way McGregor and Siver are gonna last the full 25 mins.

I can see why the UFC is having Conor headline though. He's guaranteed the next shot at the Title with a win.



I really dont feel like he deserves it to be honest
NikkiNeversleep
1/11/15 9:50:11PM
Side note.... just got front paged!
JLS
1/12/15 10:50:35AM

Posted by NikkiNeversleep


Posted by JLS1980

Henderson/Cerrone III should be the Main Event.

There's no way McGregor and Siver are gonna last the full 25 mins.

I can see why the UFC is having Conor headline though. He's guaranteed the next shot at the Title with a win.



I really dont feel like he deserves it to be honest



If he beats Siver, especially in short order, why not.

It'll be 5 in a row; Brimage, Holloway, Brandao, Poirier and with a win Siver.

Who do you think deserves it more? Frankie? He just lost to Aldo. Yeah he's on a 3 fight win streak but if McGregor beats Siver that win streak will be better and he's new blood.
Kpro
1/12/15 11:08:00AM
Waggney Fabiano deserved the title shot given to Jose Aldo, a belt Jose still holds.

Conor is the right call for a title shot with a win here whether some feel he deserves it or not.

The UFC is overflowing with undeserved title shots over the years most notably Randy Couture getting a HW shot against Sylvia after a year off following a loss at a lower weight class. It doesn't have to make anything but business sense.

As fpr which should headline I think, in Boston, McGregor will be the most popular among the 4 so I have no issue with it. As was mentioned above, we don't know if Cerrone would've even wanted, or been cleared, to do a 5 rounder after already logging 15 minutes in the Octagon this month. I'll admit it's a more appealing matchup being a trilogy, and has two guys ranked higher at LW than Siver is at FW, but it's also likely McGregor/Siver's bout agreement they signed was for a main event 5 rounder and to reverse course on that may have legal ramifications. Just too many things working against Benson/Cerrone being the main event because of how late it came to be imo.

Congrats on the front page treatment
Shawn91111
1/12/15 11:13:27AM
Can late notice fights even be 5 rounders? I know they changed a few Main Events prior to 3 rounds because they were short notice.
Michael_Corleone
1/12/15 7:22:27PM

Posted by Shawn91111

Can late notice fights even be 5 rounders? I know they changed a few Main Events prior to 3 rounds because they were short notice.




If they are for a Championship ,then yes. Hunt vs Werdum was scheduled for 5 rounds despite short notice. I believe Gustafsson vs Noguiera was scheduled for 5 rounds, but when Thiago Silva stepped in it was changed to 3 rounds. I know it has happened where they had to change a main event to 5 rounds to 3, just can't quite remember exactly of the top.
prozacnation1978
1/12/15 8:35:17PM
I am ready for a McGregor run.
I like aldo. Need a new rising star.


I think he would bring some flare to the title
Like pettis did.

NikkiNeversleep
1/13/15 9:28:16PM

Posted by prozacnation1978

I am ready for a McGregor run.
I like aldo. Need a new rising star.


I think he would bring some flare to the title
Like pettis did.




Personally think most of the top 5 absolutely murders Conor.
JLS
1/14/15 9:26:27AM

Posted by NikkiNeversleep


Personally think most of the top 5 absolutely murders Conor.



He's not my favorite either but....

GDPofMPG
1/14/15 2:06:09PM
If Conor beats Siver then he should be in line after Edgar for a shot, should be, but won't be, he'll get the shot with a win because money is more important than anything else in MMA to zuffa.

That said he'll still have only one victory over an arguable top ten opponent in Poirier. That graphic is malarkey. He's fought and beat exactly one fighter who was better then top 30 so far in his career.
Boo_Radley21
1/14/15 3:14:59PM

Posted by NikkiNeversleep

Side note.... just got front paged!



Fakey Fakerton
NikkiNeversleep
1/14/15 4:56:06PM

Posted by Boo_Radley21


Posted by NikkiNeversleep

Side note.... just got front paged!



Fakey Fakerton



Absolutely real.
aussiemma
1/16/15 6:46:05PM

Posted by GDPofMPG

If Conor beats Siver then he should be in line after Edgar for a shot, should be, but won't be, he'll get the shot with a win because money is more important than anything else in MMA to zuffa.

That said he'll still have only one victory over an arguable top ten opponent in Poirier. That graphic is malarkey. He's fought and beat exactly one fighter who was better then top 30 so far in his career.



Huh ?! Holloway not top 30 ? Lol

I don't get all the hate for McGregor, the guy is legit. Can't you see how well he moves in there ????
GDPofMPG
1/17/15 12:23:24PM

Posted by aussiemma


Posted by GDPofMPG

If Conor beats Siver then he should be in line after Edgar for a shot, should be, but won't be, he'll get the shot with a win because money is more important than anything else in MMA to zuffa.

That said he'll still have only one victory over an arguable top ten opponent in Poirier. That graphic is malarkey. He's fought and beat exactly one fighter who was better then top 30 so far in his career.



Huh ?! Holloway not top 30 ? Lol

I don't get all the hate for McGregor, the guy is legit. Can't you see how well he moves in there ????



Exactly, Max Holloway was no where even close to top 30 let alone 50 when they fought, no amount of hate needed to know that.

If you seriously don't understand the issues people have with guys like conner at this point, you simply never will.
TheShaman
1/17/15 2:52:04PM
Is Cerrone/Henderson a better fight, yes, because it will be competitive and has history. McGregor/Siver is too one-sided and likely won't get out of the first round. That's the reason it's a better fight, and why Cerrone/Henderson should be 5 rounds.

...

Anyone who was supporting Cormier's title shot has to explain why they aren't supporting McGregor's title shot. It's the same scenario... level of competition vs level of performance

I, on the other hand, have to explain why I support McGregor's shot and didn't support Cormier's. I don't think Siver earns him a shot. I think Siver is a time-killer fight until he can fight Aldo. Look at Max's technical striking. He's no joke, and McGregor made him look like he never fought before. He's made every opponent look bad, and the only fight he hasn't finished is one where he blew out his knee in the second round, able to dominate on the ground after that.

Somewhere amidst his trash talking, he makes a convincing case for a title shot. His analysis is technical and accurate, better than any commentator. His performance is Anderson-esque, not merely a safe control-fest like a Cormier fight. The one good shot I saw Cormier take before the title fight, the body kick from Mir that made Cormier cringe, convinced me that the first person who was able to hit him would beat him. Cormier said himself after Jones that the body shots took him out of the fight, and apparently Jone saw what I saw in Cormier since he focused on the body quite a bit. That, combined with his inherent tendency to slow down after a while in a fight.

There are good fights for McGregor that I wouldn't complain about other than a title shot... Edgar, Swanson, Mendes, Jung, but I am not complaining about letting an apparent phenom get a shot since everyone else has either already fought Aldo or is the same old fighters they always were and that the UFC has seen for so long now. Conor is bringing something different into the sport, or at least the division, and his performances speak for themselves.

Dillashaw's stat's were exemplary going into the Barao fight, but his level of competition was quite different than Barao's. Dillashaw's outcome proved that the level of competition was just coincidental. I was wrong about Dillashaw, but I was right about Cormier, and I think the evidence supports me being right about McGregor.
GDPofMPG
1/17/15 6:56:08PM

Posted by TheShaman

Is Cerrone/Henderson a better fight, yes, because it will be competitive and has history. McGregor/Siver is too one-sided and likely won't get out of the first round. That's the reason it's a better fight, and why Cerrone/Henderson should be 5 rounds.

...

Anyone who was supporting Cormier's title shot has to explain why they aren't supporting McGregor's title shot. It's the same scenario... level of competition vs level of performance

I, on the other hand, have to explain why I support McGregor's shot and didn't support Cormier's. I don't think Siver earns him a shot. I think Siver is a time-killer fight until he can fight Aldo. Look at Max's technical striking. He's no joke, and McGregor made him look like he never fought before. He's made every opponent look bad, and the only fight he hasn't finished is one where he blew out his knee in the second round, able to dominate on the ground after that.

Somewhere amidst his trash talking, he makes a convincing case for a title shot. His analysis is technical and accurate, better than any commentator. His performance is Anderson-esque, not merely a safe control-fest like a Cormier fight. The one good shot I saw Cormier take before the title fight, the body kick from Mir that made Cormier cringe, convinced me that the first person who was able to hit him would beat him. Cormier said himself after Jones that the body shots took him out of the fight, and apparently Jone saw what I saw in Cormier since he focused on the body quite a bit. That, combined with his inherent tendency to slow down after a while in a fight.

There are good fights for McGregor that I wouldn't complain about other than a title shot... Edgar, Swanson, Mendes, Jung, but I am not complaining about letting an apparent phenom get a shot since everyone else has either already fought Aldo or is the same old fighters they always were and that the UFC has seen for so long now. Conor is bringing something different into the sport, or at least the division, and his performances speak for themselves.

Dillashaw's stat's were exemplary going into the Barao fight, but his level of competition was quite different than Barao's. Dillashaw's outcome proved that the level of competition was just coincidental. I was wrong about Dillashaw, but I was right about Cormier, and I think the evidence supports me being right about McGregor.



The big difference with DC and McGregor is DC fought top ranked fighters for the past 4 years where conner has fought precisely one higher ranked fighter, a fact that will remain the same after Sunday night. The scenario is the same only if you take a serious revisionist history perspective.

Let's look using fight matrix since that really is the only resource available from which we can gauge the fighters who are ranked so low on conners resume.

When their fights with DC happened Silva was #6, Barnett was #7, Mir was #7, Nelson was #13 and Henderson was #6. All established, high ranking, former champion, veterans.

Explain how the activity and level of fights he partook in to earn a title shot is, as you say, the same as conners campaign

When their fights with conner happened Dave Hill was #221, Ivan Buchinger was #79, Brimage was #33, Holloway was #81, Brandao was #30, Poirer was #10 and Siver is #19 today. Almost all rookies and prospects.

There is not much to compare.

Is it so bad to expect it to take more for a crack at Aldo?
TheShaman
1/17/15 7:54:34PM

Posted by GDPofMPG

Let's look using fight matrix since that really is the only resource available from which we can gauge the fighters who are ranked so low on conners resume.

When their fights with DC happened Silva was #6, Barnett was #7, Mir was #7, Nelson was #13 and Henderson was #6. All established, high ranking, former champion, veterans.

Explain how the activity and level of fights he partook in to earn a title shot is, as you say, the same as conners campaign

When their fights with conner happened Dave Hill was #221, Ivan Buchinger was #79, Brimage was #33, Holloway was #81, Brandao was #30, Poirer was #10 and Siver is #19 today. Almost all rookies and prospects.

Is it so bad to expect it to take more for a crack at Aldo?




Your rankings are incorrect. It is as though you are assigning random numbers to fighters.

Besides Fight Matrix, we also have this very website's rankings, the UFC's official rankings, and various other resources.

Besides rankings, we have the privilege of historical context. We can look at the performances of their opponents after their respective match-ups to gauge how good they are, the opponents' records surrounding their fights, and the depth of the divisions as a general gauge of talent.

It is okay to change your opinion when presented with new information.
GDPofMPG
1/17/15 8:12:09PM
I used those because they are actually a published verifiable account, not a single one is made up, the only available with rankings low enough to include guys on conners resume, unlike ufc rankings and those unamed "various other resources" which rarley look past 10, 15 or 25 names. They are not perfect but do a perfect job of getting the point across. Conner has one high level fight and that is a truth that will carry over past this weekend. DC fought guys for four years were top level. The comparison remains flawed.
TheShaman
1/18/15 12:43:30AM
Some corrections...

Poirier was #5, not #10 (higher than any of Cormier's opponents)
Siver is #10, not #19 (roughly the average current ranking of Cormier's opponents)
Holloway is #13 (same as Mir)

Henderson and Mir have both lost 4/5 of their last 5 fights.
Poirier and Brandao have won 3/5, tying Cormier's best opponent.
Holloway has won 4/5.
Buchinger has won 5/5.

I'm almost certain that all of both their top 5 pre-championship opponents were above #30. Your source is highly inaccurate. It's easy to claim to know the top 50 rankings of a division when their claims go uncontested by other sources. Anything past the top 15 is just conjecture. Your entire argument is based solely on your one source.

It is a common practice in many fields for someone to find one "source" that supports their claims while the vast majority of other sources say the opposite or is otherwise not yet rebutted. That's why it's important to see if everyone else replicates the results or comes to a different conclusion. If the results cannot be replicated, they are incorrect. It works in science, and it works in research.

Also, since most of Cormier's opponents were heavyweights, the lack of depth of that division must be considered when assessing the rankings, as well as the records of the opponents in question.
State_Champ
1/18/15 8:30:58AM

Posted by FKA

Mcgregor while entertaining isnt a headliner......and i agree cowboy vs bendo should be for 25 mins.



I think McGregor is a headliner, but not on a card with Cerrone/Henderson.
Demetrious Johnson is a headliner too, but not if Jon Jones is on the same card.
NikkiNeversleep
1/18/15 3:32:02PM

Posted by TheShaman

Is Cerrone/Henderson a better fight, yes, because it will be competitive and has history. McGregor/Siver is too one-sided and likely won't get out of the first round. That's the reason it's a better fight, and why Cerrone/Henderson should be 5 rounds.

...

Anyone who was supporting Cormier's title shot has to explain why they aren't supporting McGregor's title shot. It's the same scenario... level of competition vs level of performance

I, on the other hand, have to explain why I support McGregor's shot and didn't support Cormier's. I don't think Siver earns him a shot. I think Siver is a time-killer fight until he can fight Aldo. Look at Max's technical striking. He's no joke, and McGregor made him look like he never fought before. He's made every opponent look bad, and the only fight he hasn't finished is one where he blew out his knee in the second round, able to dominate on the ground after that.

Somewhere amidst his trash talking, he makes a convincing case for a title shot. His analysis is technical and accurate, better than any commentator. His performance is Anderson-esque, not merely a safe control-fest like a Cormier fight. The one good shot I saw Cormier take before the title fight, the body kick from Mir that made Cormier cringe, convinced me that the first person who was able to hit him would beat him. Cormier said himself after Jones that the body shots took him out of the fight, and apparently Jone saw what I saw in Cormier since he focused on the body quite a bit. That, combined with his inherent tendency to slow down after a while in a fight.

There are good fights for McGregor that I wouldn't complain about other than a title shot... Edgar, Swanson, Mendes, Jung, but I am not complaining about letting an apparent phenom get a shot since everyone else has either already fought Aldo or is the same old fighters they always were and that the UFC has seen for so long now. Conor is bringing something different into the sport, or at least the division, and his performances speak for themselves.

Dillashaw's stat's were exemplary going into the Barao fight, but his level of competition was quite different than Barao's. Dillashaw's outcome proved that the level of competition was just coincidental. I was wrong about Dillashaw, but I was right about Cormier, and I think the evidence supports me being right about McGregor.



Cormier got his titleshot off Gus getting injured though. Not quite the same thing.
GDPofMPG
1/18/15 10:27:06PM

Posted by TheShaman

Some corrections...

Poirier was #5, not #10 (higher than any of Cormier's opponents)
Siver is #10, not #19 (roughly the average current ranking of Cormier's opponents)
Holloway is #13 (same as Mir)

Henderson and Mir have both lost 4/5 of their last 5 fights.
Poirier and Brandao have won 3/5, tying Cormier's best opponent.
Holloway has won 4/5.
Buchinger has won 5/5.

I'm almost certain that all of both their top 5 pre-championship opponents were above #30. Your source is highly inaccurate. It's easy to claim to know the top 50 rankings of a division when their claims go uncontested by other sources. Anything past the top 15 is just conjecture. Your entire argument is based solely on your one source.

It is a common practice in many fields for someone to find one "source" that supports their claims while the vast majority of other sources say the opposite or is otherwise not yet rebutted. That's why it's important to see if everyone else replicates the results or comes to a different conclusion. If the results cannot be replicated, they are incorrect. It works in science, and it works in research.

Also, since most of Cormier's opponents were heavyweights, the lack of depth of that division must be considered when assessing the rankings, as well as the records of the opponents in question.



Your so big on sources yet don't provide a single source, despite again saying again there are various or a vast majority of sources to say otherwise, to back up what you posted while claiming what I posted was incorrect despite me listings the source of exactly what I posted. And since almost no other source takes the actual time and effort to produce in painstaking detail the data adequate to portray the simple point I am making that makes that source invalid? Guess what? It doesn't and it is what it is regardless of weather you approve or not. so what do you really got?

DC had several fights against high ranked opponents, Conner has one. No amount of kool-aid drinking, Monday morning quarterbacking or goal post moving really changes that.

- GDPofMPG
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