Barnett

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pmeout
3/4/08 11:40:01PM
"I've been doing this for 12 years now," he said. "The first priority is making sure that I have an environment that I can excel in. If that means … I have to go sign somewhere where there aren't top heavyweights at the time, then sure, I'll do it.


I like Barnett, but it's time we stop ranking guys in the top 10 who don't want to fight
top 10 fighters.
cmill21
3/4/08 11:52:39PM
He's supposed to be signing with Dream, so I think he'll be fighting top people.
pmeout
3/4/08 11:58:38PM
He signed with World Victory Road. A fight with Fedor is most likely going to happen. Fedor has not fought a top 10 in 2 yrs
Pookie
3/5/08 12:32:56AM

Posted by pmeout

He signed with World Victory Road. A fight with Fedor is most likely going to happen. Fedor has not fought a top 10 in 2 yrs



Mark hunt was top ten at that time.
Daddyprimetime
3/5/08 2:37:29AM

Posted by pmeout

"I've been doing this for 12 years now," he said. "The first priority is making sure that I have an environment that I can excel in. If that means … I have to go sign somewhere where there aren't top heavyweights at the time, then sure, I'll do it.


I like Barnett, but it's time we stop ranking guys in the top 10 who don't want to fight
top 10 fighters.



This catch stuff doesn't really matter to me because it isn't true MMA.(IMO)
And another thing is when Barnett said, "The first priority is making sure that I have an environment that I can excel in. If that means … I have to go sign somewhere where there aren't top heavyweights at the time, then sure, I'll do it."
Does that mean he is happy fighting lower quality fighters????

I have alot of respect for Barnett and I don't wanna sound like I am taking anything away from him, but man try to fight the best in the world to get more repect than fighting push overs. Even if that means signing a contract that you aren't 100% happy with. If you go out and fight the absolute best and beat them, you can go anywhere and do what ever you want, but please just fight the best is all I ask.
tap_or_snap
3/5/08 8:33:57AM

Posted by cmill21

He's supposed to be signing with Dream, so I think he'll be fighting top people.



Actually if you take a look at good ole Shitdog you will see an interview with brnett where he says its very unlikely he will sign with drea as he doesnt like the way the pride side of dream stage treated him in the past.

He said they know what they have to do to sign him and its up to them but hes not keen and wont be chasing a contract with them, hes happy at segoku.
tap_or_snap
3/5/08 9:30:31AM

Posted by Daddyprimetime

This catch stuff doesn't really matter to me because it isn't true MMA.(IMO)



Not true mma!!?? well what the hell is then? kung fu?

If it wasnt for Karl Gotch and Billy Wicks mma wouldnt even exist in japan, catch not true mma? Inside Japan Catch is MMA!!!

Just beacause the old time hookers were stupid enough to start working matches for a bit of extra dough and didnt have the foresight to realise the performance wrestling monster they were creating doesnt mean catch isn't legit.

The lancashire miners were tearing each other up on the cobbles and systimatically ripping cumberland and westmorland guys new ass holes a good 200 hundred years ago.

George Hackenschmidt and Frank Gotch were two of the greatest fighters of the early 20th century.

Hell helio gracie was even taught by a catch convert in count koma, bjj has a direct lineage to catch wrestling, its a fact, not that any of the Gracies would admit it though...

Anybody who doesnt give catch its due is disrespecting a great art form. Now sure its easy to disregard catch as there are a couple of con artists out there like Furey and Cecchine making buck after buck out of limited catch knowledge and even Jake Shannon, good friend of the old time hookers and Josh Barnett himself seems far to interested in making money whilst promoting catch for my liking.

Dont get me wrong Jakes doing a great job at promoting catch in the modern day but it just makes me chuckle when he constantly chastises Furey and Cecchine for taking dollar after dollar from poor ignorant kids yet he charges subscriptions to all 3 of his websites (one of which includes pro wrestling pin ups, hardly the best way to put out a legitimate image) not to mention the high prices of his dvds and books.

And as for the training gear he offers, what a load of overpriced poorly made crap! Except for the macebell thats a good product, still overpriced mind. My personla favourite is the baseballs spray painted silver with nylon straps attached for pull ups at just under $100!! closely followed by the cheaply made pull up bar he offers, a steal at $490!
Daddyprimetime
3/5/08 2:24:36PM

Posted by tap_or_snap


Posted by Daddyprimetime

This catch stuff doesn't really matter to me because it isn't true MMA.(IMO)



Not true mma!!?? well what the hell is then? kung fu?



Catch is a form of martial arts, but it isn't MMA. How many punches, kicks, knees, and elbows were thrown???

It's only one form of martial arts, it isn't 5 or 6 styles thrown into one fight. Thats all I'm saying. I'm not taking catch down or anything, I just want to see a full out MMA fight.
tap_or_snap
3/5/08 3:52:54PM

Posted by Daddyprimetime


Posted by tap_or_snap


Posted by Daddyprimetime

This catch stuff doesn't really matter to me because it isn't true MMA.(IMO)



Not true mma!!?? well what the hell is then? kung fu?



Catch is a form of martial arts, but it isn't MMA. How many punches, kicks, knees, and elbows were thrown???

It's only one form of martial arts, it isn't 5 or 6 styles thrown into one fight. Thats all I'm saying. I'm not taking catch down or anything, I just want to see a full out MMA fight.




So i guess BJJ, Boxing & Muay Thai dont matter to you either then as by your logic they are not mma either?

And in regard to your how many punches/kicks question well while srtikes with a closed fist were against the rules back in the day its not like the old time hookers took much notice, for example Frank Gotch beat George Hackenschmidt by punching him in the face breaking his nose back when they fought for the world title.


Posted by pmeout


Posted by Twenty20Dollars

dana needs to stop being a dick and sign these top fighters. like a barnett and the heavyweight division needs him!

Barnett is the one who wouldn 't sign with the UFC. Stop blaming Dana i'm sure he would sign any top 2o heavyweight as long as they abide by the contract. As far as i'm concerned the top heavyweights are in the UFC so you dont fight them or are not working towards fighting them then your just fighting for money and fame.



Thats utter BS, fighters like Hansen and Barnett refuse to fight for the ufc out of principle, they are prepaired to toil away in japan in obscurity because they are not prepared to compromise on their principles, it has nothing to do with money or fame.

You really think WVR are going to pay josh more than the UFC?? Dana white is the one stopping josh barnett from being a top contender in the ufc, josh would happily fight there, what he wont do is abide by their BS restrictive contracts and danas mack daddy shite.

Can you really imagine josh sipping from an empty xience can (yes i know they have gone belly up before some smart ass internet samurai points it out) at the end of a fight with a big cheesy dollar in the bank grin on his face?
richieb19
3/5/08 7:06:51PM

Posted by tap_or_snap

Hell helio gracie was even taught by a catch convert in count koma, bjj has a direct lineage to catch wrestling, its a fact, not that any of the Gracies would admit it though...




Renzo would. He even once said Kosen Judo is basically the same adaptation of jiujitsu as Gracie's style.
pmeout
3/5/08 8:29:41PM

Thats utter BS, fighters like Hansen and Barnett refuse to fight for the ufc out of principle, they are prepaired to toil away in japan in obscurity because they are not prepared to compromise on their principles, it has nothing to do with money or fame.

You really think WVR are going to pay josh more than the UFC?? Dana white is the one stopping josh barnett from being a top contender in the ufc, josh would happily fight there, what he wont do is abide by their BS restrictive contracts and danas mack daddy shite.

Can you really imagine josh sipping from an empty xience can (yes i know they have gone belly up before some smart ass internet samurai points it out) at the end of a fight with a big cheesy dollar in the bank grin on his face?
First off I said heavyweights there is plenty of talent world wide in the lightweight division. What other major sports org. would let someone compete in other orgs while under contract.Danas mack daddy shit is great for the sports it puts people in the seats.And yes for the right price
coldchillin
3/5/08 11:24:43PM
I just think Barnett can't stand Dana White's tactics and the UFC's restrictive contracts. He's basically saying he's more comfortable with doing business this way and if it means he doesn't have a lot of the top heavyweights to fight, then so be it. I have wanted to see a rematch between him and Couture for the longest time now, stylistically Barnett is and has always been a bad matchup for Couture.
cmill21
3/5/08 11:42:18PM

Posted by coldchillin

I just think Barnett can't stand Dana White's tactics and the UFC's restrictive contracts. He's basically saying he's more comfortable with doing business this way and if it means he doesn't have a lot of the top heavyweights to fight, then so be it. I have wanted to see a rematch between him and Couture for the longest time now, stylistically Barnett is and has always been a bad matchup for Couture.



I think he is for alot of guys. He's a big big man, and he's very well rounded. I think he's a great fighter.
Daddyprimetime
3/5/08 11:43:57PM

Posted by tap_or_snap
So i guess BJJ, Boxing & Muay Thai dont matter to you either then as by your logic they are not mma either?

And in regard to your how many punches/kicks question well while srtikes with a closed fist were against the rules back in the day its not like the old time hookers took much notice, for example Frank Gotch beat George Hackenschmidt by punching him in the face breaking his nose back when they fought for the world title.




You're posts are getting ignorant. In reply to you saying I don't consider Muay Thai a MMA, yes it is a form of martial arts but it is not MMA. MMA is MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!!!!! Not OSFMA *one single form of martial arts*

How many Muay Thai fights does Anderson Silva have on the sherdog fight finder....I'll tell you ZERO. Boxing, Muay Thai, Wrestling and so on do not show up in MMA statistics, why the hell would a Catch fight show up in them????

Stop trying to be a smart ass and start problems with people, and stop talking about these fighters from 200 years ago that no one knows or cares about.

I also thought this was going to be just catch rules only with no strikes allowed. Turns out it wasn't. My bad.
tap_or_snap
3/6/08 9:31:40AM

Posted by Daddyprimetime

You're posts are getting ignorant. In reply to you saying I don't consider Muay Thai a MMA, yes it is a form of martial arts but it is not MMA. MMA is MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!!!!! Not OSFMA *one single form of martial arts*

How many Muay Thai fights does Anderson Silva have on the sherdog fight finder....I'll tell you ZERO. Boxing, Muay Thai, Wrestling and so on do not show up in MMA statistics, why the hell would a Catch fight show up in them????

Stop trying to be a smart ass and start problems with people, and stop talking about these fighters from 200 years ago that no one knows or cares about.

I also thought this was going to be just catch rules only with no strikes allowed. Turns out it wasn't. My bad.



Okay whatever, if you think i'm being ignorant that's' fine, i have my views and you have yours, I can deal with some one an Internet forum thinking i'm ignorant .

You right in regard to the fact that singularly any martial art on its own doesn't constitute MMA, that's pretty obvious, all you have to do is be able to understand the definition of the word mixed to know that.

That said coming out with a blanket statement like "I don't care about that catch stuff its not real mma" can be taken one of two ways, I took it as "catch doesn't have a place in MMA" and not "i'm not interested in catch wrestling but only full unified rules mma" so I responded as such, if that's not what you meant then I apologise if my comments in any way upset you.

As for stop talking about fighters from 200 years ago (100 actually) well fair enough, if your not interested in the history of the sport that's fine but don't for a second tell me to stop talking about anything, this is a public forum and ill say what I want.

As for trying to be a smart ass, not at all, i'm just giving my opinion, you don't like it fair enough, your prerogative but in regard to trying to start something?! don't be silly, I guarantee you if I wanted to start something with someone it wouldn't be via an online forum.



First off I said heavyweights there is plenty of talent world wide in the lightweight division. What other major sports org. would let someone compete in other orgs while under contract.Danas mack daddy shit is great for the sports it puts people in the seats.And yes for the right price



Yeah so good for the sport it cost the UFC a deal with HBO....

I never mentioned anything about the UFC not letting their fighters compete in other organisations being a bad thing so I don't know where that comment has come from or how it relates to my statement that it is indeed Dana's behaviour that is keeping fighters like Barnett, Lindland and Hansen out of their rightfull place on the big stage.

To say Dana's behaviour is good for the sport, well one things for sure, Dana's behaviour is good for Dana, for the sport, highly debatable.

As for you saying heavyweights, I know what you said I just through Hansens name in their because like Barnett hes one of the phew who sign on the dotted line in regard to principle and not monetary amount.
pmeout
3/6/08 8:18:30PM
The bottom line is the UFC is the most competitive org top to bottom. Yes there are plenty of fighters who have not signed with the UFC. If you are a lightweight you can argue that the top guys are not under contract with the UFC. But if not and you will not fight the UFC stable then fighting top competition is not your number one priority. That to me means even if your great like Barnett is you shouldn't be ranked anymore.As far as HBO goes F*** them good for Dana wanting to keep the integrity
of the UFC plus HBO did a bang up job with boxing. It's about the sport first then a
prestigious league filled with top talent then the fighters. We don't need any more Frank Shamrocks hand picking guys so he doesnt have anything to risk. I would watch Shamrock or Barnett fight a garbage can but that doesn't prove how great they are.
Daddyprimetime
3/7/08 12:32:26AM

Posted by pmeout

The bottom line is the UFC is the most competitive org top to bottom.



Thank you for saying this. So many peiople don't realize this. Yeah the UFC doesn't have evrybody and they never will. But overall they have the most top quality fighters than any other org in the world.

Oh and by the way I gave you your first prop....or should I say I proped your cherry
Kpro
3/7/08 1:53:47AM
Rankings mean jack shit unless it's rankings for title contention in a specific organization. Otherwise, it's all keyboard warrior BS.

Fighters understand this, why can't 99% of forum posters?
Daddyprimetime
3/7/08 3:29:23AM

Posted by Kpro

Rankings mean jack shit unless it's rankings for title contention in a specific organization. Otherwise, it's all keyboard warrior BS.

Fighters understand this, why can't 99% of forum posters?



It's called nut hugging. We love hanging from our favorite fighters balls so when they do good we can claim we were a fan before so on and so forth happened.

Basically it's like any other sport, ex.... I love the Chicago Cubs, they aren't the greatest team but I will stick with them through thick and thin and I will defend them no matter what. The same rule applies with MMA. I love Chuck Liddell, the first time I saw him fight I was attached to his nuts. It's all personnal preference.
tap_or_snap
3/7/08 8:19:40AM

Posted by pmeout

The bottom line is the UFC is the most competitive org top to bottom. Yes there are plenty of fighters who have not signed with the UFC. If you are a lightweight you can argue that the top guys are not under contract with the UFC. But if not and you will not fight the UFC stable then fighting top competition is not your number one priority. That to me means even if your great like Barnett is you shouldn't be ranked anymore.As far as HBO goes F*** them good for Dana wanting to keep the integrity
of the UFC plus HBO did a bang up job with boxing. It's about the sport first then a
prestigious league filled with top talent then the fighters. We don't need any more Frank Shamrocks hand picking guys so he doesnt have anything to risk. I would watch Shamrock or Barnett fight a garbage can but that doesn't prove how great they are.




About the sport huh?? And you really think the UFC's my way or the high way attitude is the best thing for the sport?

ZUFFA is a business, its business first then the sport in their eyes, don't kid yourself otherwise, so in short you have a self defeating argument on your hands there.

If the UFC was first and foremost about the sport they would of accepted M1's offer of a Fedor Randy cross promotional fight.

If the UFC was first and foremost about the sport Dana White wouldn't consistently slag off and disregard the skills of top talent just because they refuse to sign with him.

Fedor not top five, yeah right and I'm jesus!

If you really believe a few editorial concessions in exchange for a deal with HBO wouldn't of been good for the sport then i really don't know what to say to you.

As for more Frank Shamrocks if you really think that a deal with HBO would of resulted in the UFC going down the road boxing has with padded records and top flight competition fighting each other becoming as rare as hens teeth then that's probably the most naive thing I've ever heard.

A deal with HBO would of served up mass exposure for the sport on a scale not currently experienced before, just look how much the sport grew thanks to an insignificant little station called spike. High ratings on spike equate to minuscule job loss inducing ratings at HBO.

The UFC's current market position combined with HBOs ability to consistently reach millions of homes across the United States would of been massive.

You want proof of my point well just sit back and watch the exponential growth Elite XC is about to experience as a result of their deal with CBS.

As for fighters who don't fight top competition being removed from ultimately worthless rankings well i don't think that's a point anyone has ever argued.

As for a fighters who refuse to sign with the UFC when offers are on the table not having fighting the top competition as their main priority well yes your right it isn't their main priority, its shunted into second place by the desire to keep ones integrity.

pmeout
3/7/08 4:24:36PM

Which event should Fedor sign with?
(16066 Votes)
UFC
71%
EliteXC
8%
Strikeforce
1%
Dream
13%
World Victory Road
2%
Other
1%
It doesn't matter
5%
from Sherdog this says it all


Your rhetoric is tiresome and you are missing the point because you refuse to listen. Can you imagine if the UFC or maybe even the NFL,MLB,NHL etc. bent the rules for every athlete it would be chaos. No integrity to the methods of running your business results in bankruptcy. Letting your fighters dictate the way things should be run is bad business.
jiujitsufreak74
3/7/08 4:46:15PM

Posted by Kpro

Rankings mean jack shit unless it's rankings for title contention in a specific organization. Otherwise, it's all keyboard warrior BS.

Fighters understand this, why can't 99% of forum posters?



because it is fun to argue about


Can you imagine if the UFC or maybe even the NFL,MLB,NHL etc. bent the rules for every athlete it would be chaos. No integrity to the methods of running your business results in bankruptcy. Letting your fighters dictate the way things should be run is bad business


imo that doesn't apply to MMA when you are talking about one of the most hyped fights in MMA history. i mean the business that Couture v Fedor would draw would be enormous and world wide if the UFC markets it right. Fedor is the exception to your rule and i would not have a problem with the UFC caved into a few of Fedor's demands and imo it would be a good business decision.
tap_or_snap
3/7/08 5:40:54PM

Posted by pmeout


Which event should Fedor sign with?
(16066 Votes)
UFC
71%
EliteXC
8%
Strikeforce
1%
Dream
13%
World Victory Road
2%
Other
1%
It doesn't matter
5%
from Sherdog this says it all


Your rhetoric is tiresome and you are missing the point because you refuse to listen. Can you imagine if the UFC or maybe even the NFL,MLB,NHL etc. bent the rules for every athlete it would be chaos. No integrity to the methods of running your business results in bankruptcy. Letting your fighters dictate the way things should be run is bad business.


I really don't know what all the figures are about as you can count me in that 71%, I think fedor should sign with the ufc too.

As for missing the point and not listening, your very wrong, I do listen and I do see your point I just have a different opinion to you, I imagine you do find that tiresome as you seem the type of person who can't handle someone having a different opinion to you.

No integrity to the methods of running your business?? What the hell are you blathering about, several of the most powerful corporations in the world have built their empires on a complete lack of integrity. And I hardly think making a few concessions to a top flight fighter to secure his services equate to letting your employees run your company.

What's all this bending the rules about? i never said any "rules" should be bent??

For clarification for your clearly inadequate ability to understand things unless they are spelt out in baby language ill try and summarise for you:

1. I don't think fighters should be allowed to solely dictate the terms of their contracts however I do think the UFC should be more accommodating to fighters personal circumstances and priorities, eg Fedors desire to continue with combat sambo. IMHO It needs to be a balance between both parties, as it is its the ufc's way or the high way, they know everyone wants to fight there as its the biggest stage and they exploit that fact.

2. I don't dislike dana white, though I do dislike some of his behaviour and in the case in point in this thread I consider him to be the problem with regard to certain fighters not being signed.

This is my opinion, you can call it tiresome or compare it to a rhetoric all you want, it doesn't make you right it just makes you a jackass.

In short, I wont be posting another reply to you, I don't have the time to go tit for tat with some keyboard warrior so say what you want, my opinion is my own, you don't like it go take a running jump.


pmeout
3/7/08 7:37:08PM
Dude it is just a friendly debate don't get upset. WE ARE ALL KEYBOARD WARRIORS HERE otherwise we wouldn't write anything.
tap_or_snap
3/7/08 9:39:31PM

Posted by pmeout

Dude it is just a friendly debate don't get upset. WE ARE ALL KEYBOARD WARRIORS HERE otherwise we wouldn't write anything.



i guess thats a fair call, i really dont know why i bother with forums, i always manage to get into arguments, i think i have confrontation issues...
Pookie
3/7/08 10:44:53PM
I will continue to rank him top ten until someone more deserving knocks him off of it.

number0
3/27/08 4:24:09PM
Barnett is a great fighter.But if i remember correctly he was the ufc heavyweight champ but was stripped when tested positive for roids.
ICSlegend
3/28/08 12:41:48PM

Posted by Daddyprimetime

You're posts are getting ignorant. In reply to you saying I don't consider Muay Thai a MMA, yes it is a form of martial arts but it is not MMA. MMA is MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!!!!! Not OSFMA *one single form of martial arts*

How many Muay Thai fights does Anderson Silva have on the sherdog fight finder....I'll tell you ZERO. Boxing, Muay Thai, Wrestling and so on do not show up in MMA statistics, why the hell would a Catch fight show up in them????

Stop trying to be a smart ass and start problems with people, and stop talking about these fighters from 200 years ago that no one knows or cares about.

I also thought this was going to be just catch rules only with no strikes allowed. Turns out it wasn't. My bad.



Tap Or Snap's posts aren't ignorant, and your post might be ironic that it opens with that.

"Stop talking about these fighters from 200 years ago that no one knows or cares about".

Speak for yourself man, if you want to wallow in your own ignorance that's fine, don't respond. But I appreciated Tap Or Snap's posts. Catch wrestling is awesome.

Daddyprimetime It looks like you are arguing for the sake of arguing, whereas Tap Or Snap is presenting factual points and thought-out opinions.

Besides, Barnett HAS fought the best in the world already. He beat one of the UFC's most heralded champs in Couture and was HW Champ. Is there something more he could achieve in the UFC? Barnett already has a great legacy in MMA, fighting top comp and being one of the only people EVER to beat Big Nog and almost tapped him. No MMA fighter owes keyboard warriors anything.

And Tap Or Snap, don't stop posting trivia, it's cool. I'm sure I'm not the only poster to appreciate it.
ICSlegend
3/28/08 12:49:28PM

Posted by number0

Barnett is a great fighter.But if i remember correctly he was the ufc heavyweight champ but was stripped when tested positive for roids.



You remember correctly. But Barnett was screwed by the commision. He never recieved any documentation of the test or the list of banned susbtances and what he was specifically tested for. It was a big scandal, and I'm not saying Barnett wasn't on roids, but the test was highly flawed and debatable and the people dealing with it didn't do so legally. Anyway, look up some studies on athetes and steroids. Almost all pro atheltes are on steroids or a supplement equivilant, legal or not, and cycling allows most fighters to test clean. Sometimes slip ups happen like with Sherk, but most athletes are on an even playing field in terms of recovery, whereas all the steroids in the world won't give you better technique.
kastro_316
3/31/08 12:11:04PM
Hey, I agree 100%

He needs to start fighting again
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