Bader vs. Vinny

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nickcuc547
12/4/08 6:51:20PM
Does anybody else believe this has the makings to be one of the all time most boring fights in ufc history. I don't think Vinny will be able to pull guard on Bader the way he did to Krystof, and both guys have very suspect striking. I think this is going to be a stand still stand up war and I don't know who comes out on top. But I think it's safe to say Bader won't last more than 2 mins on the ground with Vinny, the lightheavyweight aoki shinya.
DevonFoxy
12/4/08 6:59:28PM
I don't think it will be boring and while both's striking isn't fantastic Bader's is much better than Vinny's imo. Goes to the ground Vinny has it more than likely but in the stand up I see Bader hitting him at will and breaking Vinny.
postman
12/4/08 7:10:29PM
What camps are they fighting out of now?
gartface
12/4/08 7:11:18PM

Posted by postman

What camps are they fighting out of now?


Bader - ACS
Vinny - I thought Team Quest...but someone said he bowed out of there. So IDK.

Edit: Sherdog has Vinny fighting out of Gracie Tijuca?
higdon10
12/4/08 7:22:49PM
Vinny will pull guard and easily sub Bader.
postman
12/4/08 7:26:22PM

Posted by gartface


Posted by postman

What camps are they fighting out of now?


Bader - ACS
Vinny - I thought Team Quest...but someone said he bowed out of there. So IDK.

Edit: Sherdog has Vinny fighting out of Gracie Tijuca?



Yeah I heard Vinny got asked to not come back to quest
Franklinfan47
12/4/08 7:30:42PM
Hopefully vinny will sub bader early to end the boredom.
MMA_Alex
12/4/08 7:40:50PM
If it just becomes a stand-up display, it might not be that exciting, but, after seeing Vinny just demolish his two opponents on the ground, I gotta say I see another submission coming from him.
Khaos
12/4/08 7:45:16PM
Of eight seasons, this LHW final is the most uninteressting by a far.
At least the other final and rest of the card is good.
higdon10
12/4/08 7:49:13PM

Posted by Khaos

Of eight seasons, this LHW final is the most uninteressting by a far.
At least the other final and rest of the card is good.



I'll disagree. I had no intrest at all in Bisbing/Haynes.
dannyfrank
12/4/08 8:08:01PM
i was mad in the vinny/krystof fight. i thought krystof was gonna take it with all those leg kicks we was landing. sadly, my wish did not come true. as far as bader and vinny go, im thinking vinny will win. i think he definitely takes it on the ground and if he can survive krystof's striking, he should be able to handle bader's. hopefully bader will KO him though.
prozacnation1978
12/4/08 8:11:06PM
i like bader but vinny will sub him once they hit the floor
Twenty20Dollars
12/4/08 8:32:34PM
This fight will get to the ground, i mean bader looked gassed in that fight with elliot and elliot didnt really hit bader with much punches.

bader with either get a takedown or vinny will get in the clinch and pull guard. I see vinny winning by armbar in the same way vinny beat jules.
The_Metal_Maniac
12/4/08 11:49:32PM
They both have mediocre stand up. They both feel the ground gives them the best chance of winning. Bader will shoot on Vinny, Vinny will let him and easily sub him off his back. I see this as a lop sided one way fight in favor of Vinny, 1st round sub.
Pitbull09
12/5/08 12:59:48AM
I dont want to flame Eliot but his fight with Bader didnt just suck because of Bader. Eliot tired into the second round, was taken down at will and did nothing in guard. I know with a strong wrestler in your guard its hard to do much, but he had plenty of options and chose to lay there.
He kept doing rubber guard for like 10 seconds and then would let go of it and then he had that one kimura attempt that he gave up cause he only used one hand to grip it.
Vinny's BJJ is way higher than Eliots and he will sub Bader no doubt. The only hope is that they stand for awhile to give a preview of how balanced Vinny is.
Pitbull09
12/5/08 1:05:31AM

Posted by roncomanjason

They both have mediocre stand up. They both feel the ground gives them the best chance of winning. Bader will shoot on Vinny, Vinny will let him and easily sub him off his back. I see this as a lop sided one way fight in favor of Vinny, 1st round sub.



This isnt unexpected either as past TUF seasons with two divisions featured usually got a C level fighter in the finals. Usually its a one dimensional wrestler and Bader kinda fits that description. They were lucky to get the best two LW's in the finals.

I wish they would return to one division at a time.
ncordless
12/5/08 3:05:23AM
I think this is a great final. Classic wrestler vs. bjj. Both fighters are still in the beginning of their careers but there is no doubt that these two LHW hold the most potential of anyone in that class in the house.

I think Bader will be able to keep the fight standing and edge out Vinny on the feet... but if he starts shooting takedowns with more than a muniute left in the round I bet we see a sub from Vinny.

moob
12/5/08 8:54:16AM

Posted by DevonFoxy

I don't think it will be boring and while both's striking isn't fantastic Bader's is much better than Vinny's imo. Goes to the ground Vinny has it more than likely but in the stand up I see Bader hitting him at will and breaking Vinny.



Never done this before - but I'd take an avatar bet on this one.

Bader looked so limited in his fight against Eliot - wasn't wanting to risk getting clipped, so he kept his distance and was losing until he started taking Eliot down and lying on top of him for 3 rounds. I was surprised, as I thought Bader was a very strong fighter with more ability.

Bader doesn't appear to have much stand up - Vinny looked fast on his feet and had clean, crisp strikes - Bader will take him down and will get subbed by Vinny by whatever way he wants in Round 1.
4u2nv
12/5/08 9:22:30AM

Posted by moob


Posted by DevonFoxy

I don't think it will be boring and while both's striking isn't fantastic Bader's is much better than Vinny's imo. Goes to the ground Vinny has it more than likely but in the stand up I see Bader hitting him at will and breaking Vinny.



Never done this before - but I'd take an avatar bet on this one.

Bader looked so limited in his fight against Eliot - wasn't wanting to risk getting clipped, so he kept his distance and was losing until he started taking Eliot down and lying on top of him for 3 rounds. I was surprised, as I thought Bader was a very strong fighter with more ability.

Bader doesn't appear to have much stand up - Vinny looked fast on his feet and had clean, crisp strikes - Bader will take him down and will get subbed by Vinny by whatever way he wants in Round 1.



I'm with him I can't see Bader getting better in this short of time. Vinny looked to have better standup and his ground game is sick. I see this making it into the second round and Bader gassing and subbed.
Jackelope
12/5/08 11:52:11AM
Vinny has awesome jiu jitsu for a light heavyweight. You don't see too many light heavies being real active off their backs. I'm highly impressed with Vinny.

I don't think jumping guard will work on Ryan Bader since he's so damn strong. Remember that Kryszstof isn't a great wrestler, so what may have worked easily on him possibly won't work as well on Bader.

Bader trains with Gustavo Dantas who is a world class jiu jitsu black belt, too. It will be interesting to see if Gustavo has him prepared for Vinny's guard.
Panochador
12/5/08 11:55:54AM
Bader has mediocre stand up, and brutal lay and pray.

Vinny has mediocre stand up and phenomenal jiu-jitsu.

Vinny will sub Bader in the first round. No way he makes it to the 2nd round, no way in hell.

Bader has absolutely no future in the UFC. Vinny could be a great fighter if he can improve his striking.
Sledge23
12/5/08 12:32:06PM
Vinny Sub round 1
FrankTheTank1181
12/6/08 3:38:04PM
Bader is all about taking his opponent down and laying on top, which is a real bad idea against a guy like Vinny. Round 1 Sub for Vinny.
bls1919
12/6/08 4:03:27PM
This shouldn't be a boring fight in the least. It will either be Vinny sucking mat after a Ko or Vinny demolishing one of Bader's arms.. If Bader can keep it standing and land good PUNCHES. Leg kicks only score points...unless your thiago alves. He needs to make Vinny realize what it is to get hit hard. If he can break vinny down he could win.
Aries2343
12/7/08 11:08:01AM
I understand Vinny is a outstanding Jujits guy, but you gotta remember Bader is an ALL American Wreslter and way bigger then vinny in mass, and its only going to go to the mat if Bader wants it to. I know no one like boring wrestlers, but I kinda like Bader, he's gotta quiet guy type of personality, but a funny side. Fighting wise he is limited to this point, due to he's been able to get by with using great wrestling ability. Vinny I think will be outclassed on the feet, and get frustraigted by not being able to get Bader down to where he's comfertible. Though its probly not the smart mans bet I'm going to say Bader is able to avoid the submissions all 3 rounds and do enough to earn himself a 3 round boring Descion theres my $0.02
mrkennedy
12/7/08 2:51:11PM
vinny by sub triangle or armbar
MMA
12/8/08 10:30:06PM
I know there's a lot of Badar hate because of his lnp tactics against Marshall, but let's be fair, it was just that the BJJ canceled out the wrestling. Vinny's BJJ is levels above Marshalls so we should see an interesting fight.
breakdown5
12/8/08 10:48:54PM
Vinny ends this one fast if it hits the ground. But if Bader's wrestling can prevent the TD then he very well could win this one.
mikevolz
12/8/08 11:24:17PM
baders standup while not being good, is leaps and bounds above vinny's and he is much less afraid of taking a shot.

vinny is tentative to stand in the pocket, and would much rather pull guard.


so he has to get this fight to the ground, and he can either do that by shooting a double/single leg. which will result in bader sprawling, because vinny will not stand and trade and shoot a good double leg, but will more than likely try to shoot from outside of range if he does, which will result in bader not begin taken down.

or, he could pull guard/ go for a flying submission. now to get this, he is going to have to get into the clinch with bader. and if bader isnt retarded he'll know what to do, to push off and be prepared for it.

i see the fight going with a tentative vinnie staying outside and trying to get inside, but if bader has good timing/not chasing vinnie, being able to clip him. if vinnie does get the clinch, he'll go for something flying fast or pull guard, and bader will be prepared.

i don't know, to pick against someone who has better wrestling/ standup, and isnt afraid to strike is a dangerous pick. vinnie is 4-2? now? and bader will go through this whole training camp knowing EXACTLY what to prep against.

i take bader by 1st round tko.
DevonFoxy
12/9/08 12:04:24AM
Vinny is amazing on the ground one of the tops in the world........stand up is very easy to disect. Watch out for the head kick.......and leg kick until he can't walk which will set up a huge shot breaking Vinny's mentality. I'll take any av bet on this fight because Bader's wrestling is going to keep this fight on the feet where Bader has a [b]HUGE[/b] advantage in even though its mediocre.

Im sorry you guys but Vinny's stand up needs a couple of years of training and pulling Guard on Bader isn't gonna work or so it seems cuz Bader is huge. its gonna be hard for Vinny to wrap his legs around him like he did to Krystoff. Just my opinion.
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