Article on Nog v. Bader

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Pookie
9/30/10 5:12:52PM
Here

A wide range of opinions have been voiced on the decision in the Ryan Bader vs. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira fight. Though I've read many logical explanations for both fighters deserving the win, I always consult with the one source that is unquestionably correct: the unified rules of MMA.

I've been whining that simply following the suggestions in the unified scoring criteria would elicit the quickest, easiest, and most lucrative change possible. The only change would be to stop deviating from the rules and just follow them as they're written. Rounds two and three of the Nog vs. Bader fight perfectly illustrate my point and epitomizes why judges are over-valuing the takedown -- and in the process -- insolently defying their instructions of how to properly score a mixed martial arts contest.
Gogoplatapus
9/30/10 5:47:38PM
Wow. Great read.
AfroSamuraiTHEBEAST
10/1/10 12:11:20AM
Very good stuff. Ive always thought takedowns should not be thought of too highly. I feel like it should count the same as if you land a solid punch that moves em back. Like who cares if you get one like that solid punch that moves em back. What matters most is what you do after. Like if you dont go on the attack after a good punch its like ok so you landed a good punch. Like after the takedown if they get right back up its like ok so your back were you started no big deal. But if you do some meaningful gnp or advance position it means so much more.
AchillesHeel
10/1/10 8:35:24AM
If I could 'prop' the author, I would.

"[...]the Nog vs. Bader fight perfectly illustrate my point and epitomizes why judges are[...] insolently defying their instructions of how to properly score a mixed martial arts contest."

Amen, brother.

"NOTE: I have a list of questions out to influential New Jersy athletic commissioner Nick Lembo on the specifics of this subject, and will publish them shortly."

I'll be tuning in for that.
bjj1605
10/1/10 12:35:02PM
Great article. I went and read through the Unified Rules afterward too to check his accuracy. It really seems like there is just a problem with the judges. The rules as they are written should produce the correct winner of the fight 99% of the time.

But there might also be a problem with too much discretion. The judges are given examples of each of the criteria and it is explained, but they aren't explicitly directed how to score a fight.

Also, I agree that Nog won the fight. But knowing the judges I wasn't at all surprised when he lost. It was close enough that I knew there was a good chance the judges would get it wrong. With the Dunham fight I was really shocked.
AchillesHeel
10/1/10 12:45:25PM

Posted by bjj1605

Also, I agree that Nog won the fight. But knowing the judges I wasn't at all surprised when he lost. It was close enough that I knew there was a good chance the judges would get it wrong.


Right, MMA judges as a group are losing their credibility, and there's a growing expectation - not just a worry, mind, an expectation - for poor judging decisions on each and every card. In the WEC 51 discussion thread last night, two of us predicted that Hominick-Garcia would be scored a Split Decision, when it was pretty obvious that Hominick had practically run the table. Those judges who don't have their heads where the Sun doesn't shine, as well as the administrative people at the various state commissions, should be embarrassed by the growing public perception of their collective incompetence.
bjj1605
10/1/10 11:04:39PM

Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by bjj1605

Also, I agree that Nog won the fight. But knowing the judges I wasn't at all surprised when he lost. It was close enough that I knew there was a good chance the judges would get it wrong.


Right, MMA judges as a group are losing their credibility, and there's a growing expectation - not just a worry, mind, an expectation - for poor judging decisions on each and every card. In the WEC 51 discussion thread last night, two of us predicted that Hominick-Garcia would be scored a Split Decision, when it was pretty obvious that Hominick had practically run the table. Those judges who don't have their heads where the Sun doesn't shine, as well as the administrative people at the various state commissions, should be embarrassed by the growing public perception of their collective incompetence.



I totally agree. And the Hominick_Garcia fight is a great example. Every time there's a remotely close fight me and my buddies all say "Fighter A obviously won but there's a good chance he'll get screwed and they'll give it to fighter B". Then we laugh and cry when we're proven correct time and time again.
Aether
10/3/10 2:58:48AM
I like this article and I agree. I scored the fight for Nog as well and I was kind of surprised that there was pretty much no discussion about it when I got back and checked the forums.

I guess it's a combination of the fact that the Dunham-Sherk fight was the biggest dark cloud in terms of judging and that these decisions are just becoming an expectation like achilles said.
LanceFreimuth
10/5/10 10:02:51PM
In reality, takedowns are a huge deal in a fight. If you takedown an unwilling opponent, you've taken him out of his gameplan, which has to count for something. That being said, one stuffed takedown or one get-up should nullify one takedown attempt. Bader did nothing with his takedowns, but I think in the end the standup was so close that pushing forward and achieving the takedowns gave him the edge on cage control.
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