Is Aoki the #2 LW in the world

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Pookie
6/16/08 4:18:55AM
Thoughts?

Personally i think he is.



Edit -
Well i put in a poll but it didnt work
StriderXero
6/16/08 4:35:25AM
BJ is numba 1 and numba 2! lol jk

I would prolly give it to Sherk or Gomi.......not sure.

I think Gomi would beat Aoki, Aoki beats Sherk, and Sherk beats Gomi...........i dont know why I see that.
Pookie
6/16/08 4:44:27AM

Posted by StriderXero

BJ is numba 1 and numba 2! lol jk

I would prolly give it to Sherk or Gomi.......not sure.

I think Gomi would beat Aoki, Aoki beats Sherk, and Sherk beats Gomi...........i dont know why I see that.



gomi historically has shown vulnerability to bjj guys.
StriderXero
6/16/08 4:48:53AM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by StriderXero

BJ is numba 1 and numba 2! lol jk

I would prolly give it to Sherk or Gomi.......not sure.

I think Gomi would beat Aoki, Aoki beats Sherk, and Sherk beats Gomi...........i dont know why I see that.



gomi historically has shown vulnerability to bjj guys.



yeah i know,
but I just feel that Gomi would beat Aoki. It's just a gut feeling. I'm sure most people would pick Aoki over Gomi.
juanez13
6/16/08 6:24:14AM
I think he is for what he has accomplished, but in terms of skill i dont think he is.
DCRage
6/16/08 6:31:46AM
Gomi's next fight is right around the corner (might be at DREAM 5), if he wins that one I think he's still #2. If not, I drop him to #3 below BJ & Aoki.
Jackelope
6/16/08 8:22:30AM
Look, I'm as amazed by Aoki as everyone else is. The thing is, it's all ground game. Nothing he does in between (takedowns, scrambles, standup) convinces me he's #2 in the world. He's still young as hell so I have no doubt he'll make a run at #1 in the world, but not yet.

And man, we really need to get these guys fighting each other. If I could see him up against a powerhouse wrestler like Sherk and he secures a sound victory I'd quickly change my tune.

fullerene
6/16/08 8:29:35AM
It's a good question and I think you could make a decent argument for him, Sherk or Gomi. A more fundamental question is how highly you rank the #1 guy in the #2 (or lower) promotion, regardless of the weight and individual personalities. Does that guy get the #2 spot or is he automatically below any of the guys fighting in the more competitive UFC? Right now I think it varies depending on the individuals and weight classes, but I think--if trends continue--it will be increasingly dificult to justify being a top 5 fighter unless you are proving it in the UFC.
stock
6/16/08 8:47:28AM
Top 10? Definitely.
Top 5? Can't really tell by who he has fought.

His win over Joachim Hansen was pretty impressive.
His win this past weekend was impressive too, but how good is Nagata?

He could be #2 in the world, but I don't think anyone could really know until he starts fighting some top 5 or 6 guys.
cmill21
6/16/08 9:07:24AM

Posted by stock

Top 10? Definitely.
Top 5? Can't really tell by who he has fought.

His win over Joachim Hansen was pretty impressive.
His win this past weekend was impressive too, but how good is Nagata?

He could be #2 in the world, but I don't think anyone could really know until he starts fighting some top 5 or 6 guys.



JZ is also a top 5.
stock
6/16/08 9:12:55AM

Posted by cmill21


Posted by stock

Top 10? Definitely.
Top 5? Can't really tell by who he has fought.

His win over Joachim Hansen was pretty impressive.
His win this past weekend was impressive too, but how good is Nagata?

He could be #2 in the world, but I don't think anyone could really know until he starts fighting some top 5 or 6 guys.



JZ is also a top 5.



Probably, but both fights were close. Aoki was not able to put him away, and I think if they were to fight again the line would be pretty close.

My only point is that given current information, I could not put him #2.
Although, there is not really enough information for me to argue against it either.
D0wnUnd6e6r
6/16/08 9:59:26AM
I'm still convinced JZ can beat him
CantAndleDaRiddum
6/16/08 11:43:16AM

Posted by juanez13

I think he is for what he has accomplished, but in terms of skill i dont think he is.



well put sir
89vision
6/16/08 12:54:26PM

Posted by D0wnUnd6e6r

I'm still convinced JZ can beat him



yeah me too

aoki's standup isnt very good, he just hopes to pull guard if hes losing the fight, to be honest aoki is # 10 on my list, but if he wins the grand prix he'll move up to 5-7 on my list
cowcatcher
6/16/08 1:17:01PM
i think hes right there with sherk, and gomi and i have him at #2 in my rankings. if he wins the tourney that pretty much cements him at #2 in my mind. something that hasnt been mentioned is that the guy can take a punch, jz uncorked a few really hard shots on him in their 2nd match and he was more or less unphased, and i know nakao KOd him, but a guy with limited stand up, and an awesome ground game with a chin is a dangerous fighter.
AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
6/16/08 1:45:11PM

Posted by D0wnUnd6e6r

I'm still convinced JZ can beat him




If there were no time limits , the man stepping out of the cage would be jz. dream allows so many strikes to the back of the head (just look at dream 4this weekend) , i dont know how they could of ruled aoki/jz first fight a no contest. Aoki has phenomenol JJ, but a strong wrestler with good sub defense or a striker with good take down defense would beat him.
i would put him some where in the top 10. I'll wait for the tournament to unfold before i further rank him.
jiujitsufreak74
6/16/08 2:27:54PM
he is easily number two IMHO. i think most of the talent pool at LW is outside of the UFC so i know the caliber of the people he has beaten. but first lets look at his competition for the # 2 spot:

Gomi: the most overrated LW fighter in MMA history. he only fought once in 2007 and that was a loss/NC to Nick Diaz in which he looked horrific. he lost to Aurelio as well by submission and even though he did defeat Aurelio in the rematch by SD it just wasn't a performance from a top LW. his best win of late is over Ishida, but besides him there really isn't a high caliber name on his record for the win column. i think he would lose to Aoki personally since he does get caught by BJJ guys.

Kawajiri: he is a great fighter, but he lost to Melendez recently and Kultar Gill and Buscape really aren't top 10 LWs. he just really hasn't had a win over a top opponent in a while.

Sherk: i don't even rank him. he has only 3 fights at LW and his wins over Franca and Florian aren't good enough for me. both of those guys are outside of the top ten imho and he has to fight more before i consider him to be a top LW

Now Aoki's argument:

he defeated a top 5 LW in JZ. JZ is an animal, and Aoki was able to get it to the ground and work his game. he showed control and poise en route to a UD victory. I don't get it when people say he doesn't have takedowns because the way he was able to get it to the ground was ridiculous against JZ. also, Nagata is a silver medalist from the 2000 Olympics and Aoki was able to easily take him down, not to mention his sick judo throws he implements on his opponents as well. he has a wide array of submissions at his disposal: gogo's triangles, flying triangles, armbars, flying armbars, standing arm locks and a plethora of others. he has wins over Akira Kikuchi (defeated Jake shields and is highly regarded), JZ, Hell boy and Clay French. his striking isn't as bad as people make it out to be and he is just so versatile in any fight and if he wins this LW tournament he should be the Unanimous #2 LW. a win over Uno, Kawajiri or Alvarez would cling it IMO.
Pookie
6/16/08 2:38:36PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74

he is easily number two IMHO. i think most of the talent pool at LW is outside of the UFC so i know the caliber of the people he has beaten. but first lets look at his competition for the # 2 spot:

Gomi: the most overrated LW fighter in MMA history. he only fought once in 2007 and that was a loss/NC to Nick Diaz in which he looked horrific. he lost to Aurelio as well by submission and even though he did defeat Aurelio in the rematch by SD it just wasn't a performance from a top LW. his best win of late is over Ishida, but besides him there really isn't a high caliber name on his record for the win column. i think he would lose to Aoki personally since he does get caught by BJJ guys.

Kawajiri: he is a great fighter, but he lost to Melendez recently and Kultar Gill and Buscape really aren't top 10 LWs. he just really hasn't had a win over a top opponent in a while.

Sherk: i don't even rank him. he has only 3 fights at LW and his wins over Franca and Florian aren't good enough for me. both of those guys are outside of the top ten imho and he has to fight more before i consider him to be a top LW

Now Aoki's argument:

he defeated a top 5 LW in JZ. JZ is an animal, and Aoki was able to get it to the ground and work his game. he showed control and poise en route to a UD victory. I don't get it when people say he doesn't have takedowns because the way he was able to get it to the ground was ridiculous against JZ. also, Nagata is a silver medalist from the 2000 Olympics and Aoki was able to easily take him down, not to mention his sick judo throws he implements on his opponents as well. he has a wide array of submissions at his disposal: gogo's triangles, flying triangles, armbars, flying armbars, standing arm locks and a plethora of others. he has wins over Akira Kikuchi (defeated Jake shields and is highly regarded), JZ, Hell boy and Clay French. his striking isn't as bad as people make it out to be and he is just so versatile in any fight and if he wins this LW tournament he should be the Unanimous #2 LW. a win over Uno, Kawajiri or Alvarez would cling it IMO.



you know i was going to come up with an arguement for shinya but i realized that i better just let you do it.... and bam 15 minutes later this appears.

Fear the strechy pants guys, fear them.
Copenhagen
6/16/08 6:12:17PM
It's so hard to rank Jap and American LWs together, since they don't share many common opponents.
rabbit915
6/16/08 9:17:16PM
Right now i have to say he is but if he wins the LW Grand Prix i might have to make him #1.
JimiMak
6/16/08 9:39:14PM
I'm pretty much done w/ rankings. but I think he offers some of the most intriguing matches, he's one of my fav's to watch, and I think he stands a good shot at anyone
cowcatcher
6/16/08 10:32:37PM

Posted by JimiMak

I'm pretty much done w/ rankings.



oh god i hope WAMMA doesnt see this
NatedawgThaM
6/16/08 11:02:11PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74

he is easily number two IMHO. i think most of the talent pool at LW is outside of the UFC so i know the caliber of the people he has beaten. but first lets look at his competition for the # 2 spot:

Gomi: the most overrated LW fighter in MMA history. he only fought once in 2007 and that was a loss/NC to Nick Diaz in which he looked horrific. he lost to Aurelio as well by submission and even though he did defeat Aurelio in the rematch by SD it just wasn't a performance from a top LW. his best win of late is over Ishida, but besides him there really isn't a high caliber name on his record for the win column. i think he would lose to Aoki personally since he does get caught by BJJ guys.

Kawajiri: he is a great fighter, but he lost to Melendez recently and Kultar Gill and Buscape really aren't top 10 LWs. he just really hasn't had a win over a top opponent in a while.

Sherk: i don't even rank him. he has only 3 fights at LW and his wins over Franca and Florian aren't good enough for me. both of those guys are outside of the top ten imho and he has to fight more before i consider him to be a top LW

Now Aoki's argument:

he defeated a top 5 LW in JZ. JZ is an animal, and Aoki was able to get it to the ground and work his game. he showed control and poise en route to a UD victory. I don't get it when people say he doesn't have takedowns because the way he was able to get it to the ground was ridiculous against JZ. also, Nagata is a silver medalist from the 2000 Olympics and Aoki was able to easily take him down, not to mention his sick judo throws he implements on his opponents as well. he has a wide array of submissions at his disposal: gogo's triangles, flying triangles, armbars, flying armbars, standing arm locks and a plethora of others. he has wins over Akira Kikuchi (defeated Jake shields and is highly regarded), JZ, Hell boy and Clay French. his striking isn't as bad as people make it out to be and he is just so versatile in any fight and if he wins this LW tournament he should be the Unanimous #2 LW. a win over Uno, Kawajiri or Alvarez would cling it IMO.





Except I honestly think IMHO that Kenny Florian is the 2nd best lightweight in the world. At least he has the skills to be. Just not the resume so I'd be a crackhead to sit here and type that he is the current one. But he definitely could beat Aoki with his well roundedness(BJJ Black belt and beautiful Muay Thai). The Diego lost was at a totally different weight class and Sean Sherk is just the worst possible match up for anybody, a strong relentless excellent wrestler with good sub defense. But I think Florian will be #2 when he gets some more big wins under his belt. Even though Din Thomas and Joe Lauzon are serious quality wins IMO nevertheless finishing them like he did and that at least IMO has to have him at the least in the bottom of your top team even though I personally have him higher then that, 5, 6, or maybe 7.(Haven't updated since before 84 or 85)

But you make some solid points on Aoki's part, he definitely is currently #2. NO doubt about it
Buddharox
6/17/08 6:25:00AM
Rankings are determined by accomplishments, not "so-and-so could beat so-and-so if they fought".

With that said, I don't really think BJ Penn is the #1 LW in the world. I definitely think he's the best LW, but you can't be ranked that high with only 3 wins. Especially since only one of those opponents could have been said to be top 5, though I personally wouldn't say Sherk should be that high since he only had 2 LW fights (and Florian was def. not top 10 then).

Just my opinion on rankings, I don't personally have a top 10 list.
tepid55
6/17/08 1:52:41PM
I would at least put Aoki in the top 5.
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