Antonio Rodrigo "Minotauro" Nogueira vs. the UFC, Part II

MMAPlayground.com » MMA General » UFC Forum » Antonio Rodrigo "Minotauro" Nogueira vs. the UFC, Part II
AchillesHeel
2/17/08 4:18:47PM
Well, it's seven months since my first thread on the topic, and Minotauro has the bling around his waist.





So now what?

A fight with Randy Couture is a dream match for those of us who aren't obsessed with Fedor Emelianenko. If anybody could give Randy his first loss by submission hold in more than 6 years, it's Big Nog.

A match against Andrei Arlovski would be another barn-burner, but seems less likely to happen with every passing day.

Brandon Vera is coming off the loss to Sylvia, Gabriel Gonzaga has to go back to the drawing board, and Frank Mir still has a road to travel.

Does anyone in the UFC's Heavyweight division hit harder than Tim Sylvia? Not with his hands, I don't think, but Cheick Kongo is a much more well-rounded striker. If Kongo caught Nog like Herring caught him, it could be bad news for the Brazilian. Unfortunately, Kongo's takedown defense is inferior to just about everybody's, and I could see him getting sub'd in much the same way Sylvia did, only quicker.

Fabricio Werdum may have stepped to the front of the line with his win over Gabriel Gonzaga. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get one more fight before being given a title shot, and I think he could be Nogueira's toughest test. If anyone in the UFC can roll with Nogueira, it's Werdum. Of course Nog knows that, and their first meeting - at Pride: Critical Countdown in July of '06 - was a boxing match that ended in a Decision for Nogueira.

I can easily envision Nogueira ending the year as the reigning champ, with 2 more notches in his gun-barrel.
Mastodon2
2/17/08 5:13:27PM
I too see Nogueira ending this year as champ. Now that Cro Cop is gone, I don't see anyone in the UFC who I think has more than a 40% chance of beating Nogueira. I know people will say "Cro Cop has sucked lately so he left", but I reckon if he had a shot at his old adversary, and avenging that loss, then Cro Cop might have been able to take it, his fire would have relit. Imo, Nogueira will have another 2 successful defences this year be the champ as the year rolls in 09
warglory
2/17/08 5:19:22PM
Big Nog will def be champ by the end of the year. This of course could easily be upended by a big signing by Zuffa, which is entirely a possibility based on what happened in 07 with the huge amount of signees.
cmill21
2/17/08 6:10:02PM
It's really tough to see anyone who can beat him, all the guys with good enough BJJ to stave off his subs has striking that he can exploit with his boxing. Werdum's the closest IMO and he will still probably lose a UD.
Manfred
2/17/08 6:13:46PM
I agree. However, I think, like anybody else, he can get caught. His brother's chin is nearly as legendary and he was KO'd by one punch.

Outside of that, I don't see anyone on the roster right now that can beat him
nickcuc547
2/17/08 7:22:21PM
i think the only guy in the ufc right now that can beat nog is big tim, and we all saw how that turned out.
RMFG_187
2/17/08 9:15:46PM
3 people that can beat Nog in the UFC.
Randy Without a doubt (but it won't happen)
Andrei would be a joke fight
Lesnar (as much as i hate him he would own Nog in the stand up and then GnP)
Aaronno9
2/17/08 9:53:59PM
I think his next defence is going to be against fabricio, which i think nog takes by desicion. Doesnt seem like AA is going to be sticking around, but with his sambo background he should at least beable to hold his own on the ground with nog rather than getting subbed straight away like tim, and i think hed definatly win the stand up, so this could be a very intriguing fight if it ever happens. Kongo would get taken down and subbed in the first round imo. A rematch with timmy doesnt seem likely in the near future, hes just had to many title shots and i think he'll need to beat at least 2-3 top guys to even get close. A fight between him and kongo/gonzaga seems more likley than any of the three getting a shot at nog. Who ever said brock ill assume was joking, nogs boxing is so much sharper than brocks, and if brock tries to take nog down hes going to get subbed.
imanidiot777
2/17/08 9:56:48PM
If Lesnar lost to Mir by submission, who is a BJJ guy, how is he going to beat THE BJJ guy, Nog? I like Brock and I was rooting for him because I know he's really training and trying to be for real and not just jump in, but he doesn't have much of a shot at Nog now.

Nog will definitely still be champ at the end of this year unless Couture comes back and fights him.
juanez13
2/17/08 11:44:04PM
yea with the people that are/will get the next title shots it seems like nog will keep the belt for a while, i think the only person right now who will beat him is AA, if he sticks around i think he can take Nog...............i may sound crazy or whatnot, but i think Brandon Vera would beat nog, just my toughts.
loonytnt
2/18/08 12:14:00AM
no one said GG yet? i think this guy would have a great chance to beat nog, GG got some stand up and good BJJ, imo GG could beat him
ChokeUout
2/18/08 1:21:56AM

Posted by nickcuc547

i think the only guy in the ufc right now that can beat nog is big tim, and we all saw how that turned out.



I totally agree. To beat Nog you Need Powerful striking, Great takedown defense, and probably a size advantage. Big Timmy definetly had the best shot of beating him, and he was until Nog caught him in the 3rd round. I really don't see anyone else matching up very well against him.

Like was said earlier, Werdum probably cna't get him to the ground , and Nog can outstrike Werdum and is smart enough to play that game instead of the ground game with Werdum, and I'd see Nog winning via UD/TKO.

Against Kongo, lol...Cheick would be lucky if that lasted into the 2nd round. Kongo is the better striker, but I seriously doubt his Takedown defense and sub defence is good enough to advoid the same fate Timmy got. And actually, If Kongo wins against Herring, I think Kongo should get the next shot at him (Barring a Couture comeback).

Arlovski? Well, He also has a striking advantage, IF HE BRINGS IT! If he fights like he has in his last 4 fights, forget about it, no matter WHERE the fight takes place. On the ground, Andrei's Sambo background will help him, but I seriously doubt he'll be able to survive 5 rounds against Nog.

Lesner? Pure and simple, if Mir Caught him, Nog will. Lesner might be able to put a beating on him, but Nog will take it, smile, and Slap on an anaconda choke in the late first, early second.

Herring won't get a fourth shot at him...

Gonzaga is an intriging thought, but I see Nog winning whereever that fight would take place. Basically, Nog is just a little bit better than everything Gonzaga is good at.

Frank Mir would be an interesting fight. Watching those two Grapple would be a beautiful thing to watch. But I think Nog would take a similiar approach to this as he would/did against Werdum, winning a standup battle, as Mir's takedowns are average at best. Also, I don't like the chances of Mir catching Nog in a sub.

Brandon vera would be a good fight. I dunno, Maaaaybe he can rock Nog with a knee or something, But even so, Nog's recovery abilities are second to none. If it's a matter of striking with the hands, I think Nog's Hands are crisper and faster. And Althought Vera is no pushover on the Ground, he'd get totally controlled by Nog on the Mat, and probably Arm-barred.

Eddie Sanchez and Antoni Hardonk simply aren't ready...

SO yeah, TImmiy had the best shot, and Nog still beat him. Kongo deserves the next shot if he beats herring, and he'll get subbed easily.

The BIG wild card here is if Randy somehow comes back to fight him. I think Randy has the Wrestling, Takedown defense and Sub defense to dictate where the fight goes. And on the feet, I put it as a pretty even fight. The Odds of finishing Nog are VERY slim, and Randy is someone who can win a fight if it goes 5 rounds because he's a master of imposing his will, even if he doesn't finish someone.

But since Randy's comeback looks unlikely, Nobody the UFC currently has will beat Nog anytime soon. THe best chance is if in 2009 sometime TImmy gets another chance. But the belt will stay with Nog for the forseeable Future.
cmill21
2/18/08 1:23:35AM

Posted by loonytnt

no one said GG yet? i think this guy would have a great chance to beat nog, GG got some stand up and good BJJ, imo GG could beat him



See if he had any kind of a chin he would have a good chance, but after quitting in his last two fights I want to see if he'll keep folding. I think GG has a huge heart(he fought 3 days after his son died), he's got talent, but IMHO he needs to quit the HK crap, theres been one guy in all of mma i've seen land it over and over, it takes incredible timing, and I think he tires himself out by throwing them.
Pookie
2/18/08 2:33:49AM

Posted by RMFG_187

3 people that can beat Nog in the UFC.
Randy Without a doubt (but it won't happen)
Andrei would be a joke fight
Lesnar (as much as i hate him he would own Nog in the stand up and then GnP)



Lesnar?

... LESNAR???

the same man that tapped to Mir in less than 2 minutes? And you expect him to last 25 minutes with big nog?
NatedawgThaM
2/18/08 3:24:52AM

Posted by cmill21

It's really tough to see anyone who can beat him, all the guys with good enough BJJ to stave off his subs has striking that he can exploit with his boxing. Werdum's the closest IMO and he will still probably lose a UD.





He's a bad match up for everybody. If they have a good enough ground game he will pick them apart on the feet. If they have good striking it will end like the Big Tim fight.

IMHO Lesnar actually has the best chance. Yeah you laugh now but I honestly think next year when Lesnar gets the experience under his belt and he actually grows into a complete fighter. He'll actually be a bad match up for Big Nog. Lesnar at his MMA prime would beat Nog much like fedor. GNP!

So I honestly believe Big Nog will remain champ until Lesnar grows more and touches up on that sub defense. Cardio would be Lesnar's only dowfall because it would be hard to imagine Lesnar keeping up that same GNP pace against Mir with sub defense, not getting submitted for more then 2 rounds.
loonytnt
2/18/08 7:36:00AM

Posted by cmill21


Posted by loonytnt

no one said GG yet? i think this guy would have a great chance to beat nog, GG got some stand up and good BJJ, imo GG could beat him



See if he had any kind of a chin he would have a good chance, but after quitting in his last two fights I want to see if he'll keep folding. I think GG has a huge heart(he fought 3 days after his son died), he's got talent, but IMHO he needs to quit the HK crap, theres been one guy in all of mma i've seen land it over and over, it takes incredible timing, and I think he tires himself out by throwing them.



yeah he throws way to many high kicks, i kick his low kicks work well.Needs to put that black belt to use more imo
allmotormark
2/18/08 12:06:54PM
kongo would get subbed in about 1 minute , he has no sub defence and is not hard to take down.

i am not a huge nog fan but if tim couldn't ko him then kongo ain't gonna do shit cause atleast tim has a ground defence
AchillesHeel
2/18/08 12:56:02PM

Posted by juanez13

i may sound crazy or whatnot, but i think Brandon Vera would beat nog


It's not crazy, but it is premature, as are predictions for Gonzaga. Both guys are probably a year away from a(nother) title shot, and that's if everything goes right for them. Lesnar is even further away, imo. All three guys probably need to win 3 fights against increasingly-challenging competition to earn a title shot.

I could see Nogueira's next three fights being title defenses against Werdum, Kongo, and a rematch with Sylvia after he wins two more matches. This is assuming that both Couture and Arlovski are indeed history, and that Dana White doesn't sign someone big*.

All that said, I think Brandon Vera with another year of positive development could be a threat. 2009 could be the year that Vera, Mir, Lesnar, and Gonzaga take shots at the belt, and any one of them could get an early shot late this year.




* Honestly, though, who could White sign at this point? Mark Hunt? Josh Barnett? Aleks E? I just don't see the UFC getting any instant-challengers from outside the organization.
cj_striker
2/18/08 2:18:51PM
Great post reply by AchillesHeel, completely agree. Big Nog's next three fights will be Werdum, Kongo if he gets the win, and Big Tim if he wins another big fight or two, and if he stays. I think if Gonzaga gets his head back in it, he is a big threat to Big Nog (not sure if he could win or not, but definitely a threat), and if Vera was just a little bit bigger I think he could rule the HW division, he would be like the GSP of the HW IMO, but the reality is he is probably just not strong/large enough. Lesnar definitely needs more time and experience. Mir, you never know, even though most people would say Big Nog is better in BJJ, Mir could do it if the cards feel his way. I would love to see Couture or AA fight him, but it just won't happen it seems. Maybe CC in the future after his stint in Dream. But mostly I'd love the UFC to pick up Big Foot, because that guy definitely has the talent (even though he didn't show it as well as he could against Ricco) to be the future of the HW division.
hippysmacker
2/18/08 9:17:04PM

Posted by RMFG_187

3 people that can beat Nog in the UFC.
Randy Without a doubt (but it won't happen)
Andrei would be a joke fight
Lesnar (as much as i hate him he would own Nog in the stand up and then GnP)



I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt, that despite the complaints I've gotten , you are not trolling and beleive what you wrote. Since you seem to have so little respect for one of the all-time greats in Big NOG, and are so sure that you are right . I mean only a guy who is always right , would brashly post hyperbole like- Randy would beat Nog without a doubt- That is would be a joke fight for AA when fighting Nog- or that 1-1 IN MMA Lesnar who just got subbed ,by a on the comeback trail Mir, would own Nog in the standup and Gnp him.

1rst-Randy without a doubt.- I guess thats your opinion, but if after watching MMA for the last year and a half you think someone is unbeatable more power to ya. I figure since your never wrong you are undefeated in picks, right? OOPS, no guess not. While you have a decent 55 and 33 career record and have started off very well this year at 18- and 9 you do in fact not always pick right. Now why I think this fight is a pickem, and don't think Randy is scared of Nog, fact is Randy refused to fight big Nog. That should at least give you some doubt. or may be I'm just talking reasonable doubt. Of course somebody would have to be reasonable, be capable of seeing more than one possibility , and have the ability to discern from multiple choices. Either way I agree this fight could go to Randy, but I would never have the audacity to say he would beat Big Nog" without a doubt" Still a guy who has such certainty in himself must have a track record of proven post. Let's see even though you confessed to being a Lesnar hater you did say and I quote
"Frank Mir is an easy matchup for him"
OOPS! again. wow maybe your not always right, maybe being so brash could come back to bite ya in the ass.

2nd- Andrei fight would be a joke- I find this really Interesting , becuase while some may find it funny, Andres performance lately just makes me sad. Andre has lost 2 of his last 4 fights, and I doubt he is very proud of his victory over Werdum. At least thats what he said when he was apologizing to the crowd after that snore fest . So either a loss, or a uninspired performance in 3 of last 4 fights. A marked tentativeness since he got Koed by Sylvia, and even throwing repeated back of the head shots against Cruz . I mean yeah look at all the victory's he has over guys rated in the top 10 when he fought them. Sylvia and Werdum ( thats it! ) and the Werdum fight had people throwing stuff at the ring.Let's see how many losses he has against guys who were top 10 when he fought them. Let's see Rizzo crushed his face, Barnett Koed him, and Sylvia Koed and completely outpointed him. That makes him 2-4 against top 10 fighters on any MMA sites rankings I have ever seen. Lets look at Nog by comparison. Lets see- won his first 6 fights then ( AA lost his first ,in possibly the funniest mma fight ever, seriously watch it if you haven't) lost a close split decision to Hendo back in the no-weight class days. Then he became Rings champion( he was now a top 10 guy most places) before moving onto Pride. Beat Coleman( top 3, if not # 1 everywhere that did rankings back then) , the reigning GP champ and on a big roll at the time, in the first round. Then he finished off Herring ( top 5 at least everywhere then) to win the tournament and title. Then when Pride and K-1 teamed up for the cross-promotional show he fought undefeated at the time, and most people thought real life Godzilla Bob Sapp, and gave stopped him . At this time a lot of people were afraid to fight the guy. His aura of invincibility was strong till Nog tore it down. Then he beat a another giant ( who is now K-1's champ Sammy Schilt , and was top 10 back then ) to once again prove mma guys will generally pawn a guy who's just a striker. Schilt even had a lot of MMA experience , but Nog still tapped him.Then he avenged his loss to Hendo in the GP, even tapped him. At last he met Fedor( was top 5 then) and took the biggest beating I have ever seen in a decision. No matter what anyone thinks about NOG, I think all will agree he has taken the most punishment , and come back more than anybody in MMA history.I am sure having seen him pull it out a the last minute so many times, many thought he was still gonna sub Fedor in that last minute, but he didn't. He then got a victory over Ricco( just de -throned UFc heavyweight champ, and top 5) , although personally i would have given the decision to Rodriguez. Then gave Cro-cop his first loss, in another fight where he absorbed a ton of punishment, only to pull out the sub yet again. Then he took out Herring and Kharotanov again( both top 10 at THE TIME) to make it the final against Fedor again. After a no-contest due a cut Fedor sustained, they fought again. Fedor ( #1 to most ) had his number again, butt this fight was not dominant like the last one. He then Submitted Natula, considered the greatest Judoka in history by most, in the first round. A unranked guy, but another guy most did not want to fight when he came into MMA. Nog then beat Werdum ( top 5-10). Then he lost a close fight of the year candidate battle with Barnett( top 5) , and won the rematch in another classic. Last he subbed sylvia( top5) in another fight where it looked like he was absorbing a lot of damage but found a way to win again. So Nog is 11 and 3 against top 10 guys with 2 losses to fedor( most peoples # 1 at the time) and 1 to Barnet( top 5) he later avenged. He also repeatedly stepped up to fight people others were afraid to at the time( sapp, Cro-cop, Nastula) . So we are gonna have to disagree hugely. While I would never disrespect AA and imply " it would be a joke" for him to actually beat NOg , I would give him only a punchers chance.

3rd- and my favorite- Lesnar would own Nog in the standup and would Gnp Him. Nog has survived the worst beatings in MMA history, fedor 1, Sapp, Mirko, and has never been stopped. He has actually won 2 of those fights, and was taking a beating from Sylvia as well. Maybe you know very little about the ground game, or standup, but Nog is considered better than Mir at both. Nog trains with the Brazilian Olympic boxing team ,and was holding his own against Sylvia on the feet. Personally I beleive Tim's reach is the only reason he was able to land more punches. On the ground while Mir is well respected, the only top Hvy fighter who is considered to have better jits than Nog is Werdum. The only guys considered better on the ground than him overall are Fedor and Werdum, but hey thats just the opinion of about 90% of the fighters. Just ask yourself one question honestly. Have you ever met someone who thought that Mir could take more punishment than NOG? Come on man! Mir , his trainer, and his mom wouldn't make that claim. Nog would have probably tied Lesnar up a lot quicker, and not been dropped by a Lesanr jab anyway. Opinions aside, to compare the mma pedigrees of Lesnar and nog is just rude. It's like comparing Vince Young o Tom Brady. One has a lot of potential, but hasn't even won a playoff game . The other has proven he is a champion multiple times, as is considered on of the greatest ever.
BlazinSaddle
2/18/08 9:23:18PM

Posted by hippysmacker


Posted by RMFG_187

3 people that can beat Nog in the UFC.
Randy Without a doubt (but it won't happen)
Andrei would be a joke fight
Lesnar (as much as i hate him he would own Nog in the stand up and then GnP)



I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt, that despite the complaints I've gotten , you are not trolling and beleive what you wrote. Since you seem to have so little respect for one of the all-time greats in Big NOG, and are so sure that you are right . I mean only a guy who is always right , would brashly post hyperbole like- Randy would beat Nog without a doubt- That is would be a joke fight for AA to beat nog- or that 1-1 IN MMA Lesnar who just got subbed ,by a on the comeback trail Mir, would own Nog in the standup and Gnp him.

1rst-Randy without a doubt.- I guess thats your opinion, but if after watching MMA for the last year and a half you think someone is unbeatable more power to ya. I figure since your never wrong you are undefeated in picks, right? OOPS, no guess not. While you have a decent 55 and 33 career record and have started off very well this year at 18- and 9 you do in fact not always pick right. Now why I think this fight is a pickem, and don't think Randy is scared of Nog, fact is Randy refused to fight big Nog. That should at least give you some doubt. or may be I'm just talking reasonable doubt. Of course somebody would have to be reasonable, be capable of seeing more than one possiblilty , and have the ability to discern from multiple choices. Either way I agree this fight could go to Randy, but I would never have the audacity to say he would beat Big Nog" without a doubt" Still a guy who has such certainty in himself must have a track record of proven post. Let's see even though you confessed to being a Lesnar hater you did say and I quote
"Frank Mir is an easy matchup for him"
OOPS! again. wow maybe your not always right, maybe being so brash could come back to bite ya in the ass.

2nd- Andrei fight would be a joke- I find this really Interesting , becuase while some may find it funny, Andres performance lately just makes me sad. Andre has lost 2 of his last 4 fights, and I doubt he is very proud of his victory over Werdum. At least thats what he said when he was apologizing to the crowd after that snore fest . So either a loss, or a uninspired performance in 3 of last 4 fights. A marked tentativeness since he got Koed by Sylvia, and even throwing repeated back of the head shots against Cruz . I mean yeah look at all the victory's he has over guys rated in the top 10 when he fought them. Sylvia and Werdum ( thats it! ) and the Werdum fight had people throwing stuff at the ring.Let's see how many losses he has against guys who were top 10 when he fought them. Let's see Rizzo crushed his face, Barnett Koed him, and Sylvia Koed and completely outpointed him. That makes him 2-4 against top 10 fighters on any MMA sites rankings I have ever seen. Lets look at Nog by comparison. Lets see- won his first 6 fights then ( AA lost his first ,in possibly the funniest mma fight ever, seriously watch it if you haven't) lost a close split decision to Hendo back in the no-weight class days. Then he became Rings champion( he was now a top 10 guy most places) before moving onto Pride. Beat Coleman( top 3, if not # 1 everywhere that did rankings back then) , the reigning GP champ and on a big roll at the time, in the first round. Then he finished off Herring ( top 5 at least everywhere then) to win the tournament and title. Then when Pride and K-1 teamed up for the cross-promotional show he fought undefeated at the time, and most people thought real life Godzilla Bob Sapp, and gave stopped him . At this time a lot of people were afraid to fight the guy. His aura of invincibility was strong till Nog tore it down. Then he beat a another giant ( who is now K-1's champ Sammy Schilt , and was top 10 back then ) to once again prove mma guys will generally pawn a guy who's just a striker. Schilt even had a lot of MMA experience , but Nog still tapped him.Then he avenged his loss to Hendo in the GP, even tapped him. At last he met Fedor( was top 5 then) and took the biggest beating I have ever seen in a decision. No matter what anyone thinks about NOG, I think all will agree he has taken the most punishment , and come back more than anybody in MMA history.I am sure having seen him pull it out a the last minute so many times, many thought he was still gonna sub Fedor in that last minute, but he didn't. He then got a victory over Ricco( just de -throned UFc heavyweight champ, and top 5) , although personally i would have given the decision to Rodriguez. Then gave Cro-cop his first loss, in another fight where he absorbed a ton of punishment, only to pull out the sub yet again. Then he took out Herring and Kharotanov again( both top 10 at THE TIME) to make it the final against Fedor again. After a no-contest due a cut Fedor sustained, they fought again. Fedor ( #1 to most ) had his number again, butt this fight was not dominant like the last one. He then Submitted Natula, considered the greatest Judoka in history by most, in the first round. A unranked guy, but another guy most did not want to fight when he came into MMA. Nog then beat werdum ( top 5-10). Then he lost a close fight of the year candidate battle with Barnett( top 5) , and won the rematch in another classic. Last he subbed sylvia( top5) in another fight where it looked like he was absorbing a lot of damage but found a way to win again. So Nog is 11 and 3 against top 10 guys with 2 losses to fedor( most peoples # 1 at the time) and 1 to Barnet( top 5) he later avenged. He also repetaedly stepped up to fight people others were afraid to at the time( sapp, Cro-cop, Nastula) . So we are gonna have to disagree hugely. While I would never disrespect AA and imply " it would be a joke" for him to actually beat NOg , I would give him only a punchers chance.

3rd- and my favorite- Lesnar would own Nog in the standup and would Gnp Him. Nog has surviuved the worst beatings in MMA history, fedor 1, Sapp, Mirko, and has never been stopped. He has actually won 2 of those fights, and was taking a beating from Sylvia as well. Maybe you know very little about the ground game, or standup, but Nog is considered better than Mir at both. Nog trains with the brazilian Olympic boxing team ,and was holding his own against Sylvia on the feet. Personally I beleive Tim's reach is the only reason he was able to land more punches. On the ground while Mir is well respected, the only top Hvy fighter who is considered to have better jits than Nog is Werdum. The only guys considered better on the ground than him overall are Fedor and Werdum, but hey thats just the opinion of about 90% of the fighters. Just ask yourself one question honestly. Have you ever met someone who thought that Mir could take more punishment than NOG? Come on man! Mir , his trainer, and his mom wouldn't make that claim. Nog would have probably tied Lesnar up a lot quicker, and not been dropped by a Lesanr jab anyway. Opinions aside, to compare the mma pedigrees of Lesnar and nog is just rude. It's like comparing Vince Young o Tom Brady. One has a lot of potential, but hasn't even won a playoff game . The other has proven he is a champion multiple times, as is considered on of the greatest ever.




that was a detailing pawning of that guy and a fair assesment too
imanidiot777
2/18/08 10:37:59PM
That is one huge reply, you have alot of time on your hands although I like that reply lol. Very nice. I do think that once Lesnar gets another year or 2 of experience he will be a threat to anyone, not even close as of now he'd have no shot.
hippysmacker
2/19/08 2:40:20AM

Posted by imanidiot777

That is one huge reply, you have alot of time on your hands although I like that reply lol. Very nice. I do think that once Lesnar gets another year or 2 of experience he will be a threat to anyone, not even close as of now he'd have no shot. [/QUOTE

Book's still out on Lesnar, but I agree his potential is phenomenal. Hope that last fight humbled him some, he seemed pretty respectful in the post fight interview, which gives me hope for his future.
ncordless
2/19/08 3:48:55AM
First off... if 2007 taught us anything it's that anyone can lose to anyone.

That said, I don't see Nog losing the belt anytime this year.

If I have to pick a fighter with the best chance of an upset, I'd say Kongo. Here's why:

Kongo comes in as the physically superior athlete. And he would need it. Kongo can dominate the stand-up. To win he would have to keep the fight standing. One thing about Nog is that his takedowns are way too BJJ-style. Against Tim he looked like like he could only bend at the waist on takedowns. If Kongo can sprawl those and then when Nog pulls guard he could run like it's Roseanne's legs he's in between, then he would have a decent chance. I wouldn't count on it though. Same goes with Vera I guess, although Kongo's power and athleticism makes Kongo a better dog.
cmill21
2/19/08 8:34:04AM
I'm really sorry to burst everyone's bubble but Kongo's stand up isn't all that good and IMHO Nog has the better boxing. Nog's boxing is crisp while Kongo's is laboured, he cocks his right hand and telegraphs it big time. I could keep going but I don't feel like typing it all out.
saemskin
2/19/08 10:16:34AM
I don't think Cheick Kongo is even top 15 in the HW class. He won a decision over Cro-Cop when the guy is obviously having some problems. Other than that, who's he fought that worth a second guess?
Winning the decision over CC is the luckiest thing that has ever happened to that B-game fighter.

He is not a title contender and never will be. I'm actually surprised to see his name mentioned in this thread at all!
AchillesHeel
2/19/08 11:25:17AM

Posted by saemskin

I don't think Cheick Kongo is even top 15 in the HW class. He won a decision over Cro-Cop when the guy is obviously having some problems. Other than that, who's he fought that worth a second guess?
Winning the decision over CC is the luckiest thing that has ever happened to that B-game fighter.

He is not a title contender and never will be. I'm actually surprised to see his name mentioned in this thread at all!


Who in the UFC is ahead of him? Werdum could be, like I said earlier, but it isn't clear-cut. Sylvia just had his shot. I think Gonzaga could/should be better than Kongo, but he needs to rewrite his play-book. Frank Mir? Brandon Vera?

Heck, Eddie Sanchez is probably the #8 HW in the UFC right now...
AchillesHeel
2/19/08 11:28:43AM

Posted by cmill21

I'm really sorry to burst everyone's bubble but Kongo's stand up isn't all that good and IMHO Nog has the better boxing. Nog's boxing is crisp while Kongo's is laboured, he cocks his right hand and telegraphs it big time. I could keep going but I don't feel like typing it all out.


Again, it's all relative. Whose standup is better? Nog's could be, yes. Maybe Vera? Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I wouldn't mind seeing Vera-vs-Kongo. Antoni Hardonk has decent standup, I guess, but I'd probably pick Kongo to win if they met in the Octagon.

At this point, Alistair Overeem and Ben Rothwell would be Top 10 Heavyweights in the UFC without lifting a glove.
AchillesHeel
2/22/08 2:57:32PM
So with Kongo fighting Herring and Werdum fighting Vera, I guess it will be a little while before Nogueira's first title defense.

The simple math would be if either Kongo or Werdum wins, and the other loses (personally, I'll be pulling for Kongo and Vera). If they both win, it's sort of a coin-toss who gets the first crack at it, and probably depends on who's ready sooner. If they both lose, it sort of throws the "MMAth" into a shredder, as neither Herring or Vera would have earned a title shot with only one win. And I suppose I shouldn't be throwing Andrei Arlovski out with the bath water just yet, but I'm not optimistic.
Kastro
2/24/08 3:01:43PM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by RMFG_187

3 people that can beat Nog in the UFC.
Randy Without a doubt (but it won't happen)
Andrei would be a joke fight
Lesnar (as much as i hate him he would own Nog in the stand up and then GnP)



Lesnar?

... LESNAR???

the same man that tapped to Mir in less than 2 minutes? And you expect him to last 25 minutes with big nog?



LOL...

I totally agree man, I even have my doubts about Randy beating Nog... it would be a lot closer than RMFG thinks...

As for Lesnar, thats just a laugh... Nog has better standup IMO we just didnt see it against Sylvia because of the reach advantage but we saw it against Herring.. Noguiera would most likely get the fight to the ground anyways where he would be able to quickly and embarassingly submit Lesnar.

As for Arlovski? I think that would be another sub win for Nog.. a lot of people (UFC fans moreso) do not Noguiera as well as they should, he has been in WARS and always comes out on top (with the exception of Fedor Emilianenko)... he will take a lickin and keep on tickin, he is a legend of the sport and is not an easy fight for anybody - not Arlovski, not Couture, and most certainly not Lesnar!
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