Andrei Arlovsky - the most well rounded HW in the UFC

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silverbullet
3/13/08 8:12:11PM
There has been quite a bit of talk about AA leaving the UFC which truly breaks my heart. I decided to weigh in on AA's position in the UFC HW division. I argue that Andrei is the most well-rounded HW in the division, although not the best.

Top 5 HW's in the UFC
(As per MMAplayground.com, because obviously it's the best and most objective rating):

1. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
2. Randy Couture
3. Tim Sylvia
4. Andrei Arlovski
5. Fabricio Werdum

Now let me assign rankings to their three main MMA attributes: striking, wrestling, and ground game, in order to gauge how well rounded each fighter is. Rating system is very crude: three stars means the best in the business, two stars means very good but not the best, one star is rather average.

Big Nog:
Striking **
Wrestling *
Submissions ***
6 stars total
Big Nog's been nearly knocked out in both of his UFC fights. His boxing is rather technical, but MMA is not boxing. Two stars for hanging in with Herring and not getting KOed by Tim. It took Big Nog two and a half rounds to take Tim down and keep him there, so he gets one star for his wrestling abilities. Three stars in submissions obviously.

Randy
Striking **
Wrestling ***
Submissions *
6 stars total
Randy gets two stars in striking for getting KTFOed by Chuck and almost getting KTFOed by Gonzaga. Wrestling is three stars for obvious reasons, and one star in submissions for not tapping Big Tim in 5 rounds.

Big Tim
Striking ***
Wrestling *
Submissions*
5 stars total
Best HW UFC striker bar none. Tim never goes for takedowns so one star in wrestling, and his ground game is also rather questionable.

AA
Striking ***
Wrestling **
Submissions***
8 stars total
Very advanced striker as shown against Big Tim and Werdum. Wrestling is also on the level although not as great as Randy's. He's never been submitted and a Sambo champ so three stars in submissions.

Werdum
Striking **
Wrestling *
Submissions***
6 stars total
Striking is pretty decent but not on the level of AA or Big Tim's. Wrestling is rather average as shown in his fight against Gonzaga. BJJ is three stars no question.

As you can see, Andrei Arlovski may not be the BEST HW in the UFC, but he's definitely the most well rounded HW. It would be a shame to see him go. Please forgive my rather simple analysis.
SmileR
3/13/08 8:19:20PM
you hit it in one!!!
I was going to make this post but thought no one would pay attention to it!
Except you seam to have made a simple mistake where you said "although not the best."

He clearly is and he'll prove it once he KO's Big Nog!

EDIT: Thats not a knock at you, just that i doubt anyone would listen if i did another Arlovski post!
cmill21
3/13/08 8:20:14PM
I can get on board with this, I don't think Randy's striking is 2 out of 3 but other then that I can agree a bit. Although I don't think this by any stretch means he's the best HW fighter, but he has some impressive tools. Overall I would put Fedor and Barney ahead of him for well roundedness though.
tuvok500
3/13/08 8:31:54PM
I still believe that Randy, Nog and Tim would beat AA anyways, AA is not the same guy anymore, maybe it is just me but i don't see him improving at the same pace than the others 3 on my list.



cspecial
3/13/08 8:36:20PM

Posted by SmileR

you hit it in one!!!
I was going to make this post but thought no one would pay attention to it!
Except you seam to have made a simple mistake where you said "although not the best."

He clearly is and he'll prove it once he KO's Big Nog!

EDIT: Thats not a knock at you, just that i doubt anyone would listen if i did another Arlovski post!




yeah but he's talking about only UFC fighters... not world fighters.
BlazinSaddle
3/13/08 8:38:33PM
"Arlovski" is it that hard to spell?

i like your idea of the attribute scale i agree with most but...im gonna add some categories and change it around

(1 star is the lowest 3 is the highest like the TS)

1) Mir
2) Randy
3) Fedor
4) Arlovski
5) Nog


Frank Mir
Striking: *
Wrestling: **
Sub's / BJJ: ***
Defense: **
Chin: **
Overall: 10
Randy Couture
Striking: **
Wrestling: ***
Sub's / BJJ: **
Defense: **
Chin: **
Overall: 11
Fedor Emelianenko
Striking: **
Wrestling: ***
Sub's / BJJ: ***
Defense: ***
Chin: ***
Overall: 14
Andrei Arlovski
Striking: ***
Wrestling: **
Sub's / BJJ: **
Defense: ***
Chin: **
Overall: 12
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
Striking: **
Wrestling: **
Sub's / BJJ: ***
Defense: ***
Chin: ***
Overall: 13
SmileR
3/13/08 8:43:59PM

Posted by cspecial


Posted by SmileR

you hit it in one!!!
I was going to make this post but thought no one would pay attention to it!
Except you seam to have made a simple mistake where you said "although not the best."

He clearly is and he'll prove it once he KO's Big Nog!

EDIT: Thats not a knock at you, just that i doubt anyone would listen if i did another Arlovski post!




yeah but he's talking about only UFC fighters... not world fighters.



I don't get what you mean?!
silverbullet
3/13/08 8:47:08PM

Posted by cmill21

I can get on board with this, I don't think Randy's striking is 2 out of 3 but other then that I can agree a bit. Although I don't think this by any stretch means he's the best HW fighter, but he has some impressive tools. Overall I would put Fedor and Barney ahead of him for well roundedness though.



I didn't mean that AA is the best HW fighter in the UFC or the World by any means. I just compared the top 5 UFC fighters (as per mmaplayground.com). Basically the point of this post is that it sucks that Arlovkski may leave UFC :)
Twenty20Dollars
3/13/08 8:50:11PM
arlovski with an i not a y, just to let you know.
mkiv9secsupra
3/13/08 8:56:50PM
I agree that he is one of the best, and my personal facorite heavyweight fighter, but that rating system is just too basic.
For striking for example you would need to rate things such as:
Striking from outside the pocket
Striking from the inside
Striking in the clinch (which we have not seen really from him)
Head movement/Elusiveness
Etc.

Then theres grappling. He may be a Sambo champion but its effectiveness in MMA is still untested. He subbed Tim but thats it. He may have the "Arona" virus and be the GOAT of submission wrestling but in MMA he cant do anything with it. I cant tell you how to rate someone on a grappling point of view since ive only done sambo for a month but the striking rating isnt up to par.

So basically he still has unseen parts of his game. If he were to become champ, would he be able to last 5 rounds? Or if a guy with Nogueira or Werdum's credintials got on top of him could he survive it?
cmill21
3/13/08 9:04:07PM

Posted by silverbullet


Posted by cmill21

I can get on board with this, I don't think Randy's striking is 2 out of 3 but other then that I can agree a bit. Although I don't think this by any stretch means he's the best HW fighter, but he has some impressive tools. Overall I would put Fedor and Barney ahead of him for well roundedness though.



I didn't mean that AA is the best HW fighter in the UFC or the World by any means. I just compared the top 5 UFC fighters (as per mmaplayground.com). Basically the point of this post is that it sucks that Arlovkski may leave UFC :)



No I understand what you were driving at, I just wanted to state that while I feel he is the most well rounded HW in the UFC I don't think he's the best fighter so I didn't get attacked lol.
SmileR
3/13/08 9:06:41PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra

I agree that he is one of the best, and my personal facorite heavyweight fighter, but that rating system is just too basic.
For striking for example you would need to rate things such as:
Striking from outside the pocket
Striking from the inside
Striking in the clinch (which we have not seen really from him)
Head movement/Elusiveness
Etc.

Then theres grappling. He may be a Sambo champion but its effectiveness in MMA is still untested. He subbed Tim but thats it. He may have the "Arona" virus and be the GOAT of submission wrestling but in MMA he cant do anything with it. I cant tell you how to rate someone on a grappling point of view since ive only done sambo for a month but the striking rating isnt up to par.

So basically he still has unseen parts of his game. If he were to become champ, would he be able to last 5 rounds? Or if a guy with Nogueira or Werdum's credintials got on top of him could he survive it?



They would have to get him down first! Arlovski has a awesome sprawl an i can't wait for him to re-sign an rule the HW devision!

I might be a bit bias though!
Gipper
3/13/08 9:17:43PM
agree
loller90278
3/13/08 9:22:20PM
i agree with mostly everything, but werdum should have one * for striking, hes not on par with randy or any of the top 5 in the ufc, let alone the whole division.
bls1919
3/13/08 10:13:15PM
I would ahve to agree with you SB. AA is very well rounded, but he can be a head case every once in a while and get himself Fuct. Randy and Nog are the ones right behind him though. Randy needs more boxing and Nog could use that and some takedown defense.
rabbit915
3/14/08 1:00:32AM
The problem with this arguement is that its not always the most well-rounded fighter that wins. Its the fighter that presses where he has the advantage over his opponent the best. While being well-rounded makes it easier to find this weakness it doesnt neccessarilly imply that a fighter has the advantage which is precisesly why i dont think AA is top 3.
Pookie
3/14/08 3:23:35AM
He also has the weakest chin in the division.
juanez13
3/14/08 9:46:54AM

Posted by Pookie

He also has the weakest chin in the division.



and thats his biggest downfall, after he got KO'd by sylvia, he has been less willing to trade because he is afraid to get Knocked out, thats why he has lost his aggression like we had see in sylvia vs arlovski 1&2, arlovski vs cabbage and against the janitor and basically everyone before he got his belt taken away...if he is as aggresive as he was before no doubt he would be #1 or #2 in the division..............i hope he signs with the UFC on a long term deal, so he doesnt have to worry about that anymore and just focus on training.
pv3Hpv3p
3/14/08 12:25:32PM
I really like Andre as a fighter and when he brings it, he's hard to stop... I just hope that it doesn't turn into an "old Vitor" thing...

Ya know what I mean... I can't wait to see the Old Arlovski back, etc
BlazinSaddle
3/14/08 4:38:52PM

Posted by Pookie

He also has the weakest chin in the division.



im getting pretty sick of you saying that, wow he got KO'd by a heavyweight, more mass equals more power its simple science the bigger they are the harder they hit so if you look at it like that hes got a good chin because of the weight differential, i'd like to see how you fair when you charge in at tim and eat a jab.. your going down and so would anyone else, you wouldnt see georges st. pierre KO arlovski, have you not seen arlovski vs rizzo, that fight should prove that he in fact has a monster chin, in the past couple fights as well hes been taking some clean shots
gsquat
3/14/08 4:53:55PM
I love Arlovski but I think he'd lose to Randy, Fedor, and in a year or so Lesnar. Other than that I'd give him the edge over everyone else. He's a different fighter from the Sylvia days.
SmileR
3/14/08 4:59:07PM

Posted by BlazinSaddle


Posted by Pookie

He also has the weakest chin in the division.



im getting pretty sick of you saying that, wow he got KO'd by a heavyweight, more mass equals more power its simple science the bigger they are the harder they hit so if you look at it like that hes got a good chin because of the weight differential, i'd like to see how you fair when you charge in at tim and eat a jab.. your going down and so would anyone else, you wouldnt see georges st. pierre KO arlovski, have you not seen arlovski vs rizzo, that fight should prove that he in fact has a monster chin, in the past couple fights as well hes been taking some clean shots



Couldn't agree more!!! Silva has quick hands an weighs about the same as a elephant so anyone eating a upper cut right on the button is going to get rocked!!
Also in the 3rd fight he got hit with some good shots right on the chin an kept coming!
I don't know how to describe the Rizzo fight, that was a war! Shame it ended with my boy eating a big left an breaking his nose! Still not a proper KO! Just a 23 year old Arlovski fighting a world number 2 at the time!
AA's chin is tried an tested! Yeah he's been ko'd but so has pretty much everyother HW who has fought the same comp as him!
Their are very very few people who could take the same shots as him an continue on! (Hunt and Nog is all i can think of!)


jiujitsufreak74
3/14/08 5:13:20PM

Posted by SmileR

Couldn't agree more!!! Silva has quick hands an weighs about the same as a elephant so anyone eating a upper cut right on the button is going to get rocked!!
Also in the 3rd fight he got hit with some good shots right on the chin an kept coming!
I don't know how to describe the Rizzo fight, that was a war! Shame it ended with my boy eating a big left an breaking his nose! Still not a proper KO! Just a 23 year old Arlovski fighting a world number 2 at the time!
AA's chin is tried an tested! Yeah he's been ko'd but so has pretty much everyother HW who has fought the same comp as him!
Their are very very few people who could take the same shots as him an continue on! (Hunt and Nog is all i can think of!)



well there is no shame in getting KOed by Rizzo(it was ruled a KO...so it technically was proper)...the man has KOed Barnett (only person to do so and Barnett fought CC twice) and Monson who are guys that generally avoid the KO. however, AA does have a weakness in his chin. by no means does he have the weakest but it is his weakness. i know it was his first fight but when he faced Viacheslav Datsik his chin was exposed. also his encounters with Ricco and Sylvia show that he does have a weak chin. he has just shown that it is very easy to drop him, and his stand up is very overrated as well imo. the only "striker" that he has KOed is RZ and that was back in 2000. i believe that AA's strength is in fact in his well-roundedness and not in his striking. i wouldn't rank him top 5 in any specific category (wrestling, submissions, striking, etc...) in the HW division yet i would definitely put him in the top 5 for the whole division. it is the combination of his sambo and kickboxing that makes him a great MMA fighter, but on the feet he does tend to drop pretty quickly although he does have some power himself. to say his chin is fine is kidding yourself ut saying that is the weakest is doing the same.
NatedawgThaM
3/14/08 5:25:56PM
I disagree. Big Nog is more well rounded then Arlovski is. He has better wrestling and he has better submissions and has ten times the chin Andrei will ever have. The only thing Arlovski is better at is KO power. Just because Nog hasn't KO'd anybody. But Nog has just as much technique.

And I'm sick of everybody saying Big Nog has a weak chin because he's been knocked down. ARLOVSKI HAS BEEN KNOCKED OUT!!!

You guys need to watch some more freakin PRIDE fights. IT HAPPENS IN EVERY PRIDE FIGHT, HE GOT FREAKIN WWE PILEDRIVED BY BOB SAPP FOR GOD SAKE!!! He gets the hell beaten out of him in every fight and just because it happens in the UFC does not mean squat.

Yeah AA has great striking but he'll never been heavyweight champion again BECAUSE HE DOES NOT USE IT!!! He's scared to death and knows himself he has a weak chin. He does not having that fighting spirit, and him being one of the more well rounded Heavyweights means crap unless he's actually going to use it. JJfreak is right that his main strength is his well roundedness, his striking isn't all everybody makes it out to be. He was playing patty cake with Jake O'Brien, give me a break. Fedor, Big Nog, and Barnett are the most well rounded fighters.
Pookie
3/14/08 5:44:52PM
Barnett and Fedor are the 2 most well rounded in mma IMO
jiujitsufreak74
3/14/08 5:47:13PM
i just want to go on record that i never claimed that he was the best well rounded fighter in MMA. but rather that his biggest strength is his well-roundedness.
Mastodon2
3/14/08 6:01:28PM

Posted by silverbullet





Big Tim
Striking ***
Wrestling *
Submissions*
5 stars total
Best HW UFC striker bar none. Tim never goes for takedowns so one star in wrestling, and his ground game is also rather questionable.

AA
Striking ***
Wrestling **
Submissions***
8 stars total
Very advanced striker as shown against Big Tim and Werdum. Wrestling is also on the level although not as great as Randy's. He's never been submitted and a Sambo champ so three stars in submissions.



When Tim Sylvia is the best HW striker in your organisation, which is supposed to be the best of the best in the world of MMA (for now at least), it really says something about the absolute lack of quality strikers in the sport.

Furthermore, though Andrei was for a long time UFC's best striker, when he wasn't too scared to get engaged in striking at least, doesn't mean he was advanced. Sure he had quick reactions and a stiff punch, but he never showed any technical magic that would make me class him as particularly gifted or schooled. Compound this with the fact that at the time UFC was almost totally lacking HW strikers and even more so Andrei's striking doesn't seem so "advanced". Not ragging on Andrei, he was for a while one of my favourite fighters, granted he has slipped since he lost his aggression, but he isn't an amazing striker.
mkiv9secsupra
3/14/08 8:55:04PM
I dont think he has a weak chin, hes more like Tito. He can take quite a few punches, but when he does get punched he backs up because he doesnt like getting hit.

There is no shame in getting TKO'ed by Sylvia. In fact it wasnt his chin that cost him the match it was his over aggression after the knockdown. Tim caught him and jumped on his back. You can clearly see that AA was never unconscious in that fight.



Posted by Mastodon2
but he isn't an amazing striker.



good point, but we do agree he is above average though?
Mastodon2
3/15/08 5:31:46AM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra


good point, but we do agree he is above average though?



For an MMA competitor, yes.
Ordep
3/15/08 11:36:43AM
for the KO statement.... it's the HW Division from 205-265 saying that your opponent had weight advantage it's kind of nonsense because the weight range is so huge but you still need to be prepared, preparation its one of the most important part of the game and if you weight 220 or so and want to stay at HW you gotta be ready to eat punches from 265 guys if you cant handle that well, just cut to LHW and keep the excuses out.
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