"Anderson Sucks/ Is OverRated" Blah Blah Blah...

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TheHitmanTL
4/19/09 4:04:45AM
Ok so i get back from watching ufc 97 go on sherdog and other mma forums...and whats the first thing i see?? andersons lost his fire...or anderson sucks...hes becoming sylvia blah blah blah....ENOUGH !! what i saw in the main event was...anderson trying to get thales to fight him...Thales was not engaging and doin nothing to win that fight.....how are you supposed to fight someone thats not fighting back and running away?? its alot harder than one may think...and what was anderson supposed to do...the only thing thales did good in this fight was take anderson out of his gameplan...anderson still has it....thales just didnt show up to fight.....anderson did from what i said. Anyways anderson is still the fighter i think he always has been its all about matchmaking my eyes....it wasnt his best performance ill givem that and if he fights like that against Maia....hell be in for a long night. But if he fights someone like GSP itll be awesome!! i guarantee it...anderson fights aas his competition does....if his opponent is going hard...anderson will turn it up and that wasnt the case tonight unfortunately.....

DISCUSS PLEASE =D
Pskinner_mma314
4/19/09 4:08:34AM
my thoughts exactly, read my post, its simply title Thales Leites, i'm sure u'll agree with me
1daveufc
4/19/09 4:28:15AM

Posted by TheHitmanTL

Ok so i get back from watching ufc 97 go on sherdog and other mma forums...and whats the first thing i see?? andersons lost his fire...or anderson sucks...hes becoming sylvia blah blah blah....ENOUGH !! what i saw in the main event was...anderson trying to get thales to fight him...Thales was not engaging and doin nothing to win that fight.....how are you supposed to fight someone thats not fighting back and running away?? its alot harder than one may think...and what was anderson supposed to do...the only thing thales did good in this fight was take anderson out of his gameplan...anderson still has it....thales just didnt show up to fight.....anderson did from what i said. Anyways anderson is still the fighter i think he always has been its all about matchmaking my eyes....it wasnt his best performance ill givem that and if he fights like that against Maia....hell be in for a long night. But if he fights someone like GSP itll be awesome!! i guarantee it...anderson fights aas his competition does....if his opponent is going hard...anderson will turn it up and that wasnt the case tonight unfortunately.....

DISCUSS PLEASE =D

cmill21
4/19/09 4:58:11AM
Well when he's hyped up to be a destroyer of anyone and the best fighter on the face of the earth he's obviously going to have hightened expectations, it's clear he is a great fighter, but he's not the p4p best.
ChokeUout
4/19/09 5:01:29AM
Someone saved me the trouble of starting a thread about this, haha....

I actually thought silva's performance was just fine. He fought a tactical and intelligent fight. People forget that he trains with Lyoto Machida, and tonight he showed the elusiveness, the faints, and the high intelligence that Machida shows. Machida gets away with it because people are used to that from him, but silva's getting heat for it because everyone expects a highlight reel finish. It's MMA....Not all fights are gonna have a stoppage. Silva was in complete control the whole fight, and Thales has never been finished, even against Marquart or Kampmann. So while I was surprized at Anderson's gameplan and performance, I wasn't disappointed at all. THe casual fan might not like it, but there was alot to apprieciate in Silva's performance, Just not what we're used to. He had more of a Machida -type fight tonight, So I expect people who don't like Machida's style to not like this fight, but to me it showed more demensions of his game: His intelligence/movement, and the fact he can go 5 rounds.

Yes, I am a big silva fan, so I may be biased, but I hope there's SOMEBODY on the playground that saw what I saw and can apprieciate the performance tonight.


And if people say the fight is boring, I say that's leites's fault. After Silva survived on the ground with him, Leites practically stopped fighting. Its tough to fight when your opponet would rather flop to his back rather than engage. Chuck Liddel Said it perfectly at the press conference in a clip which will make headlines, since he kinda snapped at a reporter who was pestering silva about "being afraid to engage". Chuck said "What do you expect? He was attacking all 5 rounds and Leites just flopped to his back! It's fusterating for a striker when you hit a guy and he just flops!" (Check the press conference video on ufc.com. That part was actually very entertaining)

my two cents
TsekaPrivet
4/19/09 5:07:21AM
I feel a loss approaching for Anderson...

He's become so dominant in the MW division that he taunts and dances around the opponents in order to please the crowd, and it never works.

He's learning English to make himself more marketable, seriously, WTF is this ****?

He's getting too cocky, and it's only appropriate that he loses because of it.

Who will deliver his next loss?

GSP? I think Anderson would get motivated for that fight and win.

Yushin Okami? Again, Anderson would like to avenge that "loss"

Demian Meia? Quite possibly, but unlikely.

Dan Henderson? Already experienced against him.

Demian Meia will KO Anderson in Serra-like fashion.
mentalcase
4/19/09 5:07:32AM
i think part of the problem is they pump the fights up for soo long and becuase hes one of the greatest fights people think there will be fire works

they hype the **** out of every UFC so people buy it, and say it the best UFC ever like every time, so the expectation is so high the actual event wont live up to it

do your self a favour, from now on dont watch any UFC promo videos stay away from all the bull **** just look at the fight card so you know whats coming up and enjoy it when its on
bojangalz
4/19/09 6:36:45AM
The fact of the matter is, Anderson's got the belt...If a challenger wants it, then he needs to go take it. Anderson is a counter-puncher and he's already got the belt. If Leites isn't putting him in any trouble, then why should he endanger his championship status?

The ONLY reason why that was a poor fight was because Leites clearly is in a lower class of fighter. It was a mismatch from the get go. Leites was bring a knife to a gun fight and knew it. That's why he didn't engage; and Anderson wasn't about to take the fight into Leites world.

I didn't think the fight was nearly as bad as the mmajunkie play by play. But it wasn't a bout I'll seek out for a second helping.


And one final thing. I'm not sure how much I cared for the front leg kicks from Silva. Those appeared to have no other intention than to injure Leites knee. Just seemed like poor taste to me. Can you image what the reaction to this bout would have been if Silva busted up Leites knee late in the fourth after how the crowd responded to the first three rounds?! Montreal would be in flames right now.

I did find some humor in punching the thigh though, and for a moment or two it looked like they were playing footsie too. We get the message Spider.
SaskQUATCH
4/19/09 6:54:03AM
Guys, I have watched every UFC. and UFC 97 is one of the worst ones in my books. I realize we have Anderson Silva fans on here and my opinion is not to upset them but only to show my disappointment.

I paid $54.99 CAD, to watch this PPV in HD. I very much enjoy when the fights are short and quick so that Zuffa will show some of the under card fights and we get our monies worth.

Tonight there were a couple good fights. But what upset me was the conceited and self absorbed behavior that was displayed by Anderson Silva, to prance around the ring like this is embarrassing, I did not want to see "dancing with the stars" (or clowns). To stand around and do his little princess dance or what ever you want to call it for 5 rounds and throw the odd jab and kick was disappointing. He is talented enough that he could have destroyed his opponent easily and quickly and impressed. Instead he wasted your time and my time and because of his reluctance to finish his opponent we were forced to watch him and not the additional under card fights. Was he wanting to get as much air time as possible?, playing safe to get the most consecutive wins record? This is the 2nd time he has done this and it was obvious the fans present were also upset.

Leites flopping on the ground cannot and is not the only reason for Silva's lack of fight, there is no way you can blame it solely on Leites. Silva had plaenty of opportunity to attack and he waited just as muchg as Leites. Silva typically wants people to attack him and he wants to counter, Leites didn't buy into it, so what was Silva's back up plan? dancing?

He has gone from "exciting" to "I will not pay for another pay per view if he is the headliner without some more exciting big names on the card to justify the cost". I don't think Anderson could sell out a stadium or pay per view after that, nor has he in the past. That is where Liddel came in. If it wasn't for Liddel vs. Rua this UFC would have been the biggest let down of all time. The Strike force PPV was a lot more entertaining that this.

Thanks A.S., can I get my PPV money back from your over paid earnings for your lack of performance?


lohmann
4/19/09 7:29:25AM

Posted by bojangalz

The fact of the matter is, Anderson's got the belt...If a challenger wants it, then he needs to go take it. Anderson is a counter-puncher and he's already got the belt. If Leites isn't putting him in any trouble, then why should he endanger his championship status?

The ONLY reason why that was a poor fight was because Leites clearly is in a lower class of fighter. It was a mismatch from the get go. Leites was bring a knife to a gun fight and knew it. That's why he didn't engage; and Anderson wasn't about to take the fight into Leites world.

I didn't think the fight was nearly as bad as the mmajunkie play by play. But it wasn't a bout I'll seek out for a second helping.


And one final thing. I'm not sure how much I cared for the front leg kicks from Silva. Those appeared to have no other intention than to injure Leites knee. Just seemed like poor taste to me. Can you image what the reaction to this bout would have been if Silva busted up Leites knee late in the fourth after how the crowd responded to the first three rounds?! Montreal would be in flames right now.

I did find some humor in punching the thigh though, and for a moment or two it looked like they were playing footsie too. We get the message Spider.



I thought the leg kicks would be a way to slow down and immobilize Leites, maybe to achieve a late knockout on a fighter that moved away from everything. In addition, they were a good way to break Leites's forward movement for takedown attempts. I had no problem with them at all and actually thought they were the most interesting thing about the fight because I've never seen anybody use them quite like that.

The parallels to Lyoto Machida are perfect. Should anybody start engaging with Anderson Silva, they will lose. He really didn't get that from Leites; it seemed Leites was so keen but completely inable to drag Silva down for the entirety of the fight, and Silva really didn't want to go to the ground; the round he did he lost on two of the scorecards.

I think this fight showed that he's got quite the IQ. Still one of the big three in my rankings.
bls1919
4/19/09 9:07:07AM

Posted by bojangalz

The fact of the matter is, Anderson's got the belt...If a challenger wants it, then he needs to go take it. Anderson is a counter-puncher and he's already got the belt. If Leites isn't putting him in any trouble, then why should he endanger his championship status?

The ONLY reason why that was a poor fight was because Leites clearly is in a lower class of fighter. It was a mismatch from the get go. Leites was bring a knife to a gun fight and knew it. That's why he didn't engage; and Anderson wasn't about to take the fight into Leites world.

I didn't think the fight was nearly as bad as the mmajunkie play by play. But it wasn't a bout I'll seek out for a second helping.


And one final thing. I'm not sure how much I cared for the front leg kicks from Silva. Those appeared to have no other intention than to injure Leites knee. Just seemed like poor taste to me. Can you image what the reaction to this bout would have been if Silva busted up Leites knee late in the fourth after how the crowd responded to the first three rounds?! Montreal would be in flames right now.

I did find some humor in punching the thigh though, and for a moment or two it looked like they were playing footsie too. We get the message Spider.



I agree, except for the kick to the leg/knee part. It was a very very poor performance out of Leites. He did nothing to win that fight. he wasnt even trying to pull guard, he was falling backwards and hoping with all the boos that Silva would jump on him and take it to Leites world. That wasnt going to happen.
Dragoslav
4/19/09 9:20:12AM
I think a lot of the heat towards Anderson is unwarranted. There's a lot of reasons a fighter can give a bad performance. Bad camp, personal problems, injuries and the list goes on. The fact is we don't know. It could be as simple as Leites was running away most of the fight. It could be as simple as Leites was such a non-threat that Anderson's heart wasn't in it. We don't know. But I do think all the bad-mouthing and nay-saying is unwarranted. Even Fedor has had a couple less than stellar performances.
tdietel01
4/19/09 10:41:55AM
Why is everyone giving A.S. so much heat? Why was the crowd booing ? not one of those morons could handle lietes for more than two minutes and they boo silva for not finishing? a fighter should never have to appologize for losing! its dumb. people know fights go the distance and just because you knocked people out before doesnt mean its gonna happen everytime. Anderson should NEVER say he is sorry again. he should say if you dont like it, eat **** and dont watch!

someone had a good point, it IS his belt and someone has to take it from him. so until they can he can dance, show off or do whatever he want in the octogon.
Chuteboxer
4/19/09 10:50:35AM
I don't know why everyone's sudenlly talking trash about Silva...he fought boredly last night. he was pissed and he did try at times, and I agree he should've gone for broke on more than one occasion; but on the other hand, this is exactly what happened the last time he fought. Cote and Thales, as decent as they can be at times, should not have been in the cage with Anderson. Neither of them had any chance of topping him. He knew that, and he knew they didn't pose a threat to him. I think he could've finished Thales, and I am a tad bit disappointed, but at the same time, what we all saw last night was a bored Anderson Silva. That's all there is to it.

As much as I hate to say it, being no GSP fan, I hope GSP beats Alves and moves up in weight now. That is a worthy challenge for Anderson, and GSP won't shy away from a stand up war either. At least, one can hope that GSP would bring it..
State_Champ
4/19/09 11:14:37AM
You need ti take the belt from the champion, but it looked like Leites was hoping Silva would just give it to him instead.

Silva did a fine job, it's not the champ's responsibility to endanger himself; he has too much at risk. The challenger is the one who needs to go all-out if they want to win.
Jackelope
4/19/09 11:26:19AM
I have to laugh at some of the parallels being drawn here. Let's get one thing perfectly clear that I don't think people are realizing-

Thales Leites not engaging Anderson Silva on the feet is the EXACT same as Anderson Silva being unwilling to enter Thales Leites' guard. One fighter knows the other is good in one area, so they're unwilling to get into a fight there.

So, now that we've established both are to blame for the lack of engagement, let's discuss why and what went wrong. First of all, I do blame poor matchmaking for the fight turning out the way it did. We all knew instantaneously that this was a terrible matchup for Thales. He shouldn't have won against Marquardt, and he had no business in there against Anderson. How the UFC could possibly decide to go through with that matchup is completely beyond me.

I agree with those who say if you want the champions' belt, you've got to come for it. However, I also agree with those who say if Anderson Silva wants to be considered the G.O.A.T. (which has become quite the popular term) he needs to put on performances that warrant him that moniker. I think the UFC going on their anti-Fedor hype spree is backfiring against them. They're so busy calling Anderson the P4P best no question, that they're literally digging their own grave underneath themselves. Anderson Silva, unfortunately, seems to be falling right into that trap. His mocking of his opponent was so blatant and unprofessional that it drove me nuts. How can you mock someone for doing essentially the exact same thing you're doing?

To the people saying Thales was flopping onto his back- Yes, he was. He was falling down while up against the cage and attempting to grab at one of Anderson's legs so he could perform either a leglock or a sweep from the ground. Make no mistake- this is no different than Anderson Silva atttacking with low risk, low reward moves of his own. Attacking the legs because its easy and it puts him in little danger. Falling down on your back to grab at legs because it's easy and it puts you in little danger. These are the same thing, just a different medium. Again, the only difference is that Anderson holds the belt, and Thales wants it, so he should go after it.
Franklinfan47
4/19/09 11:31:26AM
Anderson Silva is not overated, he just a had a lackluster performance. Both guys were tentative and unwilling to enter into eachothers games, and unfortunately thats just how fights go down sometimes. Does it suck for fans? of course, but hopefully he'll just be that much more exciting next time.
State_Champ
4/19/09 11:32:56AM

Posted by Jackelope

I have to laugh at some of the parallels being drawn here. Let's get one thing perfectly clear that I don't think people are realizing-

Thales Leites not engaging Anderson Silva on the feet is the EXACT same as Anderson Silva being unwilling to enter Thales Leites' guard. One fighter knows the other is good in one area, so they're unwilling to get into a fight there.




imo it is the challenger's responsibility to take the fight to the champ because the the champion has something the challenger should want. On the other hand, the champion is perfectly in the right to play a conservative game and stay away from his opponents because champ needs to keep the belt.
Jackelope
4/19/09 11:35:57AM

Posted by State_Champ


Posted by Jackelope

I have to laugh at some of the parallels being drawn here. Let's get one thing perfectly clear that I don't think people are realizing-

Thales Leites not engaging Anderson Silva on the feet is the EXACT same as Anderson Silva being unwilling to enter Thales Leites' guard. One fighter knows the other is good in one area, so they're unwilling to get into a fight there.




imo it is the challenger's responsibility to take the fight to the champ because the the champion has something the challenger should want. On the other hand, the champion is perfectly in the right to play a conservative game and stay away from his opponents because champ needs to keep the belt.



If you read the rest of the original post you'll see that I agree
SociopathX
4/19/09 11:46:12AM
here's what i Saw.

1. You have Anderson Silva's oppenent who is obviously so fricken scared of the Spider's power he will NOT ENGAGE. He went almost full rounds without throwing a punch (scared he'd be countered and TKO'd probably).

2. Every time Silva started putting together a combo (especially in the mid to later rounds) before he could do any damage Leites just went down on his own. He'd fall down on purpose to avoid it.

IT's Leites's fault the fight was slow or boring or w/e people want to call it. I still found it fun to watch Silva literally play with him like a tiger toying with it's prey. Every fight of Silva's is a great fight imo.
ncordless
4/19/09 11:53:10AM
I said recently that in the Cote fight Anderson was starting to fight "cute" and caught a little flack for it.
I definitely do not retract my statement. Anderson Silva is a great fighter, but until he gets past this "shucking and jiving" "cuteness" garbage he is doing right now it's hard to think of him as the 1 p4p.

Punching the leg and hammerfisting the ankle are not the kind of offense the best employ. Would GSP or Fedor ever do crap like that?

I love Genki Sudo, but he was never a top fighter because he was too gimmicky and cute. Anderson has looked alot like Genki recently.

Anderson is really reminding me of Roy Jones Jr. in his prime right now... maybe they should box.

I recognize that neither Cote or Thales offered much offense, but that is going to be the way people fight Anderson. Limit the exchanges as much as possible, play defense, and try to take the fight to the ground. If Anderson is going to literally dance around waiting for his opponent to engage him on the feet he should think about "Dancing with the Stars" where his talents will be appreciated.
Ordep
4/19/09 12:26:17PM
I understand the "being champ, being challenger" and "who should bring the fight" situation.

But still, I think that it is really disrespectful on BOTH fighters to bring that kind of fights to the fans like me that spend $$ on the PPV and the fans that laid down more than that to see it live there. I know it sounds kind of weird logic b/c you dont know what will happen in an event, but for Silva this was the second time in a row, and the "I'll perform better next time" has been said twice already...

Mattchoo
4/19/09 12:44:52PM
Looks to me that someone is a little bored with the poor level of competition they'r being fed. He probably sees fighting Leites as disrespectful to his superior skill set so in return gives a fight like that were he didnt look like he was trying in many cases, nor putting much effort in or respect to his opponent.

But as soon as he gets a high caliber fighter like Franklin or Henderson he puts on a fantastic performance and rinses them inside 2 rounds.

He gives what he gets basicly its pretty damn obvious to me.
papercut
4/19/09 12:51:55PM
I said it in the spoilers forum so I'll say it here, I was following the mmajunkie play by play and from what it said, it sounded like anderson was doing his basic disrespectful thing like hands on the hips, "bobbing and weaving" (which to me is just extremely arrogant.) walking forward with his hands down. I don't care if you are the best or the worst fighter, someone came to fight you, so fight them.

now leites didn't do much better, he wanted to try to get the fight to the ground, he tried and failed repeatedly, but wasn't as disrespectful to anderson as anderson was to him.

my post in the spoilers thread:




from the live updates on mmajunkie, sounds like anderson is extremely arrogant and refusing to engage. I picked anderson but from what it sounds like, he NEEDS to lose. he has forgotten how to be humble.




mmajunkie didn't make it clear that leites wasn't engaging like anderson was. but still he was at least trying to make a fight where he was comfortable. anderson didn't care he was toying with leites. when is he going to "do better"? I'm still waiting. I might not like him but when he puts on a good fight at least he can be entertaining.
Mattchoo
4/19/09 1:05:02PM
When he gets an opponent worthy enough to get in there and fight him properly ala Franklin, Henderson, Marquart he might put on a great showing. He doesnt train for months to walk in there and destroy somebody in under 2 minutes who shouldnt even be fighting him in the first place. Hell if i was Anderson id be doing the exact same thing.
Dom_Diegos
4/19/09 1:34:09PM
Both fighters are to blame for a bad fight imo, but......................Anderson is said to be p4p best right now, a creative striker, a devastating attack game, 80% of his shots land. So if he is this great best ever fighter then he should have been able to put on a better show & shouldn't have to wait for his opponent to attack first & then counter. A great striker will attack you. If he trully is the best then he shouldn't have to wait, plain & simple imo, i know alot will disagree, thats ok. The solution to me is move him up to LHW. Game over
papercut
4/19/09 1:40:44PM
it shouldn't matter who he has to fight. he is being paid to fight not to prance around and taunt.

and about the "putting himself in harms way" argument, he is a fighter, when you get in the cage, ring, etc. to are always in harms way. IMO both fighters in a title match should put themselves in harms way. a challenger should be trying to take the title from the champ. the champ should do everything in his power to stop that from happening. and that doesn't mean dancing around bobbing and standing around with his hands on his hips.
grappler0000
4/19/09 2:02:26PM

Posted by Mattchoo

Looks to me that someone is a little bored with the poor level of competition they'r being fed. He probably sees fighting Leites as disrespectful to his superior skill set so in return gives a fight like that were he didnt look like he was trying in many cases, nor putting much effort in or respect to his opponent.

But as soon as he gets a high caliber fighter like Franklin or Henderson he puts on a fantastic performance and rinses them inside 2 rounds.

He gives what he gets basicly its pretty damn obvious to me.



That's what I saw as well. He could've ended the fight whenever he chose to...he chose not to. He wasn't choosing low risk attacks, he was choosing attacks that just pestered his opponent without taking him out. He would punch him in the face now and then to remind Thales that he was in a fight, but he just toyed with him the whole time. Why punch someone in the leg from a standing position? It's much riskier than punching someone in the face...and there's less reward to boot. He did it because he could. I just hope his next opponent is up to par, or I have a feeling we'll see another one of these type of fights.
SociopathX
4/19/09 2:19:17PM
They need to put him up against a solid LHW. Cane, Vera or Thiago Silva... someone who will take the fight to him and not be scared to bang.

I think him fighting Evans / Rampage or even Machida would all be good fights as well but I don't think any of those fights would ever happen.
Mattchoo
4/19/09 2:44:26PM

Posted by grappler0000


Posted by Mattchoo

Looks to me that someone is a little bored with the poor level of competition they'r being fed. He probably sees fighting Leites as disrespectful to his superior skill set so in return gives a fight like that were he didnt look like he was trying in many cases, nor putting much effort in or respect to his opponent.

But as soon as he gets a high caliber fighter like Franklin or Henderson he puts on a fantastic performance and rinses them inside 2 rounds.

He gives what he gets basicly its pretty damn obvious to me.



That's what I saw as well. He could've ended the fight whenever he chose to...he chose not to. He wasn't choosing low risk attacks, he was choosing attacks that just pestered his opponent without taking him out. He would punch him in the face now and then to remind Thales that he was in a fight, but he just toyed with him the whole time. Why punch someone in the leg from a standing position? It's much riskier than punching someone in the face...and there's less reward to boot. He did it because he could. I just hope his next opponent is up to par, or I have a feeling we'll see another one of these type of fights.



Exactly, someone of Andersons caliber can hit you when and wherever he likes. How is it not that obvious that he is deliberately fighting like that due to his sheer boredom? I see it all the time at training, he's fighting Cote and Leites like an advanced kickboxer fighting a very beginner in sparring.

UFC in my eyes are disrespecting his skills and should either get in some major talent to challenge him or move him up straight to a top contender spot in the LHW's. Theyr wasting him at middleweight aslong as they keep up with these opponents.

Hes not even one of my favourite fighters and it pisses me off with what people come out with like them sherdog links and how the UFC are treating him in terms of fights..

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