If Anderson Silva Loses......

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StriderXero
6/25/08 12:50:51PM
If Anderson looses, should he stilll be considered P4P best? I say "IF" he loses. I highly doubt he will.

I'm thinking if he loses he will get bumped down to number 3 or 4. Depending on the way he loses.

But please give me your opinion.
teddythetuna
6/25/08 12:57:19PM
He will drop to number 3 in my opinion possibly 4th if fedor wins.
cowcatcher
6/25/08 1:10:04PM
....there willl be a thousand more threads like this one
Twenty20Dollars
6/25/08 3:35:29PM
yeah i dont like these threads at all.
Rush
6/25/08 3:49:01PM
No offence to the thread started, but this is the mentality that I do not like with respect to rankings. A top ranked fighter should not drop/raise significantly in fighter rankings based off of one loss. MMA is very volatile and shit happens. Fighter rankings should be based off of who is the better fighter overall.

For example, if Silva loses (by any means) does that mean Irvin is that much better of a fighter (overall) because he beat Silva? No, I don't think so. Likewise, Silva is not really any worse of a fighter than prior to a putative loss.

This fight means little to my rankings. If Silva wins he will not be ranked in my LHW rankings and I probably wont consider him that much more of a fighter given Irvin's current status. If he loses, Irvin will not be put in my LHW rankings, nor will Silva drop. If Silva stays at LHW and starts losing to a number of guys, that is a different story, but I don't think this fight alone says much in the grand scheme of fighter rankings because the difference in current rankings p4p between Silva and Irvin is so much larger than the potential for a shit to happen.

I haven't been on the boards for a couple days so I don't know how many threads there are on this so I apologize if I am feeding yet another thread clone. Feel free to quote me in other threads if you like or dislike what I am saying.

focusrssvt
6/25/08 4:10:00PM
I think he should definitely get dropped if he loses. I mean that's what pound for pund is and if yo want to porve to everyone by going up or dropping weight that you can do it then that's your bad if your wrong. I actually don'y see him losing though as he walks around at about 215lbs so it's not like he'll be too much smaller then Irvin cause he's a pretty trim 205er himself
focusrssvt
6/25/08 4:15:32PM
Well for one he wouldn't drop in rankings for his weight class, he would obviously be P4P the best middleweight still(#1), but yes he should drop in the P4P rankings due to the fact that that's what happens when you lose. Just cause a fighter is better doesn't mean he deserves the number one seat. What if George St Pierre had gotten KO'd by lets say Drew Mcfedries in a move up bout. I would still consider him the much better fighter and still the best fighter at welterweight period, but if he would have lost his P4P rank for sure.
focusrssvt
6/25/08 4:16:37PM

Posted by Rush

No offence to the thread started, but this is the mentality that I do not like with respect to rankings. A top ranked fighter should not drop/raise significantly in fighter rankings based off of one loss. MMA is very volatile and shit happens. Fighter rankings should be based off of who is the better fighter overall.

For example, if Silva loses (by any means) does that mean Irvin is that much better of a fighter (overall) because he beat Silva? No, I don't think so. Likewise, Silva is not really any worse of a fighter than prior to a putative loss.

This fight means little to my rankings. If Silva wins he will not be ranked in my LHW rankings and I probably wont consider him that much more of a fighter given Irvin's current status. If he loses, Irvin will not be put in my LHW rankings, nor will Silva drop. If Silva stays at LHW and starts losing to a number of guys, that is a different story, but I don't think this fight alone says much in the grand scheme of fighter rankings because the difference in current rankings p4p between Silva and Irvin is so much larger than the potential for a shit to happen.

I haven't been on the boards for a couple days so I don't know how many threads there are on this so I apologize if I am feeding yet another thread clone. Feel free to quote me in other threads if you like or dislike what I am saying.




Well for one he wouldn't drop in rankings for his weight class, he would obviously be P4P the best middleweight still(#1), but yes he should drop in the P4P rankings due to the fact that that's what happens when you lose. Just cause a fighter is better doesn't mean he deserves the number one seat. What if George St Pierre had gotten KO'd by lets say Drew Mcfedries in a move up bout. I would still consider him the much better fighter and still the best fighter at welterweight period, but if he would have lost his P4P rank for sure.
ObsoleteMan
6/25/08 4:51:13PM

Posted by focusrssvt

I think he should definitely get dropped if he loses. I mean that's what pound for pund is and if yo want to porve to everyone by going up or dropping weight that you can do it then that's your bad if your wrong. I actually don'y see him losing though as he walks around at about 215lbs so it's not like he'll be too much smaller then Irvin cause he's a pretty trim 205er himself



That's "what pound for pound is"? Differences in weight is exactly what pound for pound is supposed to ignore. P4P is a comparison of how good fighters are, with weight NOT a factor. Looking at the list now, BJ Penn is rated higher than Rampage and Big Nog. He would, of course, lose to them, but that has no meaning on a P4P list. He's up there for what he does in his prime weight class.

With that in mind, it depends on how he loses to Irvin. If he's smothered against the cage for 15 minutes or LNP'd, or just out muscled in some way, he's still #1 P4P, easy. If he gets picked apart on the feet, then the criticism that he hasn't fought good strikers at MW would seem to be valid, and I would probably drop him down 1 or 2 spots.
Scott_Revels
6/25/08 5:13:38PM
::shutters at the thought of James "fell out of the cage" Irvin being possibly the new #1 P4P, or at least really high.::

RiseUp21
6/26/08 1:07:43PM

Posted by Scott_Revels

::shutters at the thought of James "fell out of the cage" Irvin being possibly the new #1 P4P, or at least really high.::




he could pull a houston alexander on silva and he wouldnt be the best p4p in the world, let alone the top 10. he'd have to be more impressive than Kid just to get #10 (sherdogs ranking). if they were both light heavies or both middleweights fulltime, itd be a different story.

also....


Posted by Rush

This fight means little to my rankings. If Silva wins he will not be ranked in my LHW rankings and I probably wont consider him that much more of a fighter given Irvin's current status. If he loses, Irvin will not be put in my LHW rankings, nor will Silva drop. If Silva stays at LHW and starts losing to a number of guys, that is a different story, but I don't think this fight alone says much in the grand scheme of fighter rankings because the difference in current rankings p4p between Silva and Irvin is so much larger than the potential for a shit to happen.


MMA
6/26/08 4:47:44PM
Irvin beating Silva would not really move him near a P4P spot IMO. I think Irvin is a really entertaining fighter, but the guy has not beaten anyone worthwhile in the light heavyweight division yet.

Don't get me wrong, a win over Silva would be huge for him. But I find it hard to rank someone based off a single performance. A true P4P/top fighter has to go out and consistently win against the best fighters.
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