Anderson Silva: Greatest champion in UFC history.

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AchillesHeel
3/5/08 4:49:27PM
The Spider has had 4 consecutive defenses of his UFC belt. I don't know if you've realized it, but this already puts him in elite company. Rich Franklin had 2 successful defenses. Tim Sylvia also had 2, I believe. I think Chuck Liddell had 4. Matt Hughes had 5, if I remember correctly.

Looking at Silva's upcoming competition, I see him getting four more:

Yushin Okami and Silva each won convincingly at UFC 82, and to my knowledge, neither suffered any notable injury. They could easily meet in the Octagon in June or July. Silva by 1st-round TKO.

Patrick Cote is on a 3-fight run in the Octagon, with 4 consecutive wins overall. His last loss was the quick armbar by Lutter at the TUF4 Finale, and Cote can also pad his CV with a non-UFC win over Jason MacDonald 2 years ago. With one more win over a convincing opponent, Cote could get a title shot in December. Silva by 1st-round Submission.

It's been almost 2 years since Chris Leben got jumped in an alley by 4 guys named Right Fist, Left Fist, Right Knee and Left Foot. He's looked pretty good in his last two fights, and in February or March of next year, I think he'll be ready to get some payback. Silva by 1st-round TKO.

Michael Bisping is taking his 14-1 record and well-rounded game down to the Middleweight division. I could see him running off 3 or 4 wins and getting a title shot in the late Spring of '09. Silva by 1st-round TKO.

By then, Nate Marquardt or Travis Lutter could be ready for a rematch, Evan Tanner could have discovered the Fountain of Youth, Dana White could have had a tearful reunion with Matt Lindland, Dan Henderson could have decided that he's better than that, or somebody like Chael Sonnen or Frank Trigg could make a return to the Octagon. Silva by 2nd-round TKO.

8 or 10 consecutive title defenses against some decent-to-great competition puts Silva in the UFC Hall of Fame at the age of 35.

So, like I said, Anderson Silva: Greatest champion in UFC history.
ac_gi
3/5/08 4:53:23PM
I would like to see Silva and Lawler throw down. That would be a fight to get excited about. I'm not sure how many fights Lawler has on his current contract, but I'm sure the UFC will want him back if he continues to improve.
CactusBob
3/5/08 4:54:10PM
Good points, but don't speak too soon. I wouldn't count Okami out. If Silva fought Okami as he fought Lutter (knee surgery that is), we may very well see a new champion, and I bet Dana will delay Silva's title shot as long as possible.
AchillesHeel
3/5/08 5:15:24PM

Posted by ac_gi

I would like to see Silva and Lawler throw down. That would be a fight to get excited about. I'm not sure how many fights Lawler has on his current contract, but I'm sure the UFC will want him back if he continues to improve.


Yeah, there are a few guys out there at 185 who could be solid contenders in the UFC. It seems like Frank Shamrock isn't interested in rebuilding any bridges, unfortunately.


Posted by CactusBob

Good points, but don't speak too soon. I wouldn't count Okami out. If Silva fought Okami as he fought Lutter (knee surgery that is), we may very well see a new champion, and I bet Dana will delay Silva's title shot as long as possible.


I'm not "counting him out", I'm saying he's going to lose.

And yes, there's no telling how the UFC will arrange Silva's schedule over the next two years. It's entirely possible that they'll set him up as a coach for "TUF Brazil" or something.
Pookie
3/5/08 6:50:26PM
Greatest champion in UFC history.

I dont know if he'll stay at 185 for that long though. I think he'll move up to 205 when he has cleared the division entirely and firmly established his legacy. Theres much better competition in that division and MW is almost Completely void of it.

prozacnation1978
3/5/08 7:01:23PM
i think if he retired he would be in the ufc hall of fame,
silva's streak is much better than tito ortiz's run, this streak will beat matt hughes's but then again silva opponent 's are top of the food chain in the middleweight, leban was undefeated , frankin, hendo, and marquadt are in the top 5, hughes did beat gracie, bj penn , gsp but also lost to gsp, penn, beat trigg twice but silva beat franklin twice, hughes did beat sherk, hard to compare, but i think another win maybe two and there will be no doubt on anyone's mind
NatedawgThaM
3/5/08 7:17:09PM
Greatest champion in UFC History by far. He's the only man to clean out a whole division.
AchillesHeel
3/5/08 7:20:12PM

Posted by Pookie

Greatest champion in UFC history.


Is there an echo in here?


Posted by Pookie

I dont know if he'll stay at 185 for that long though. I think he'll move up to 205 when he has cleared the division entirely and firmly established his legacy. Theres much better competition in that division and MW is almost Completely void of it.


Yes, this is also possible. Silva would be a Top-10 fighter at Light-Heavyweight, (almost) sight unseen. I'd give him at least even odds against sluggers like Wanderlei Silva and Chuck Liddell, and might even pick him to win.
jrmmaclassics
3/5/08 8:06:57PM
One division has on clearing out a whole planent of contenders like Gracie has. Come on the man took on and demolished all before him, give the first true champ some respect.
SmileR
3/5/08 9:23:44PM
I know he may well smash the title defense record as i don't see him losing the next few fights.
You also have got to take into consideration that the MW devision is probably the weakest devision next to the HW devision in the UFC. If Silva does string together more wins personally I wouldn't rate it as good as if Rampage or GSP got the same or even 1 or 2 less.

I'm not taking anything away from him as he is undoubtedly a amazing fighter but he's not fighting the same level of competition as the LHW as other devisions.

That being said I still see him going down as one of if no the greatest MW ever.
bls1919
3/5/08 9:33:15PM
i would love to see a catch weight fight between GSP and Silva at 178 or somthing
Korsakov
3/5/08 11:57:09PM


at the rate anderson is going, when it's all said and done he will have defended his title more times than matt hughes. he will also most likely hold a belt in 2 different divisions too
roadking95th
3/6/08 12:33:54AM
He definitely has the talent to do so, but don't count your chickens yet. It wasn't too long ago Chuck was considered unstoppable. If he fought at LHW and cleared out the division, say a 7 fight win streak in the division as it now stands, then yes one could make that arguement. However, I think the MW division is lacking a little. But hey, if he keeps this up for 5 more fights or moves around in weight, who knows.

I find it hard to say any one fighter is the greatest of all times. I'd rather go with greatest of their time. Some fighters will suffer from training techniques, opponents skill levels, exposure, etc.. These reasons are why I would shy away from such proclamations. Silva is proving he is the greatest right NOW.
Korsakov
3/6/08 7:22:33AM
the difference between chuck's reign and anderson's reign is gigantic. chuck's reign existed upon the fact that he only fought wrestlers/grapplers and he only stayed on the feet and KO'd them. he was a one trick pony (not to take anything away from him)

anderson is on another level because he is a true mixed martial artist. not only is he KO'ing people that have never been KO'd, he is also submitting olympic wrestlers and BJJ black belts like it's nothing. and the man who we all thought would be his biggest challenger, moved down from a heavier weight and still couldn't get out of the second round. do not compare chuck's reign to anderson's reign. he's simply the best. no one comes close.
DevonFoxy
3/6/08 9:03:44AM
I still want to really see a Silva Henderson rematch. I mean i was as shocked as anyone when i saw Silva won. I strongly believed that Hendo was going to win that fight but I guess nothing is certain in the octagon.

I know that Anderson doesn't have anything else to prove against Hendo but I would really like to see these guys mix it up again and see what happens. That was an impressive win for Anderson but perhaps its just my opinion I think Hendo was still a little raw in the cage and perhaps one more fight for each and we can see them go at it again.

As to the best champ in UFC history...he could very well be. Not many people could argue to that as his resume speaks for itself. Chuck has a pretty good run Tito also but the competition wasn't as stiff. I would say Hughes is at the top but I'd probably give the nod to Anderson as he just beat the #2 middleweight.
Chuteboxer
3/6/08 9:20:20AM
Unless someone has already beaten me to it and I just didn't notice it, I'd like to correct just one thing from the original poster...

Silva's only had three title defenses. Remember, Lutter didn't make weight? That title defense did not count. Marquardt, Franklin, Hendo. That's three defenses.

Greatest champ in UFC history? Let's settle down here. the MW division is not as strong as other ones. Not just the LHW division, but every other division has more talent than the MW...

Don't get me wrong. I admire Silva a lot...he's a great champion, but this whole thing about him, when he's only had a few defenses and suddenly everyone's kissing his ass, it's been blown out of proportion.
AchillesHeel
3/6/08 12:40:43PM

Posted by roadking95th

I find it hard to say any one fighter is the greatest of all times. I'd rather go with greatest of their time. Some fighters will suffer from training techniques, opponents skill levels, exposure, etc.. These reasons are why I would shy away from such proclamations. Silva is proving he is the greatest right NOW.


You're right. I didn't specify in my original post, but yes, when comparing athletes (of any sport), I always try to evaluate their accomplishments in context. And of course it's also difficult to predict the future, especially in this sport, but that doesn't stop any of us from trying.


Posted by Korsakov

the difference between chuck's reign and anderson's reign is gigantic.


I was going to say almost the same thing, although I wouldn't call the difference "gigantic." Chuck's wins over Tito and Randy are, in my mind, similar to Silva's wins over Franklin and Henderson, but I agree that Silva has faced more varied competition, on the whole.


Posted by Chuteboxer

Silva's only had three title defenses. Remember, Lutter didn't make weight?


Good point. The win was impressive, but inasmuch as title defenses are our measuring stick, it can't be counted (just as Matt Hughes' wins over Gracie and Riggs can't be counted).


Posted by Chuteboxer

when he's only had a few defenses and suddenly everyone's kissing his ass, it's been blown out of proportion.


I disagree. First, "a few" title defenses is historic. 7 or 8 of them would simply be epic, and possibly even unheard of (I haven't done thorough research, as you pointed out).

Also, people keep pointing to the lack of depth of the UFC's Middleweight division as a mitigating factor. I don't argue that the division is the UFC's weakest right now, but the depth of the division isn't a relevant factor, by itself. It's the quality of Anderson Silva's opposition that's important, and that has been very impressive: Rich Franklin is a Top-5 Middleweight, Nate Marquardt is Top-10, and Dan Henderson is the consensus #2 and among the Top 10, pound-for-pound.

I don't know how many fighters have four wins over Top-10 guys in their division, or three over Top-5 guys.

Finally, the nature of Silva's victories has literally defied belief. If you had told me two years ago that a 185-lb fighter would KO Chris Leben in 49 seconds, crush Rich Franklin twice, catch Travis Lutter in a triangle with two bad knees, pound out Nate Marquardt, and submit Dan Henderson more quickly than Big Nog did 5 years ago, I would have said you were completely up a tree.

I predicted a win for Silva over Henderson, and I thought the fight was as close to a "toss-up" as I could imagine. The one thing that I was absolutely sure would not happen was Silva catching Hendo in a submission hold.
MondayNiteMauser
3/6/08 1:27:01PM
Silva is a great champ but no one but the Ice Man dominated the division and brought the sport to mainstream like he did.
Ordep
3/6/08 1:30:58PM

Posted by MondayNiteMauser

Silva is a great champ but no one but the Ice Man dominated the division and brought the sport to mainstream like he did.





98/100 post are worshiping Liddell, and not he is not the most dominant champ, bringing the sport to the mainstream is a whole different thing and Rampage seems like doing better at this and he's just starting now.
MartinKillMcGill
3/6/08 2:15:02PM
I know the MW divison is not as strong as the WW andLHW but he is fighting the best the ufc has to offer. Hopefully now everyone is taking about him being the best it will atract more talent from over divisons and outside of the ufc. i would love to see lawler coming back
jocka
3/6/08 2:23:01PM
If am not mistaking in his post fight interview on UFC.com Silva says that he doesn t want to go up but maybee he would go down which would mean that a GSP/Silva fight i now something that could really happen
saemskin
3/6/08 3:24:50PM
I think you guys take things way too far way too fast and the title of this thread proves it. Silva has only been around a short time and has a short win streak going against some great fighters, sure, but "the greatest ever?" That's a well lofty claim to be sure.
John Fitch is on a larger win streak than Anderson, what do you say about him? Best in the universe? I'm being facetious, but you get my point. It's too much already!
If he's still whipping everyones ass in 2 more years, then you can talk about this best ever business, but right now is much too soon.
AchillesHeel
3/6/08 3:49:29PM

Posted by saemskin

I think you guys take things way too far way too fast and the title of this thread proves it. Silva has only been around a short time and has a short win streak going against some great fighters, sure, but "the greatest ever?" That's a well lofty claim to be sure.


You're basing your position on some factual errors: Silva is coming up on the 8th anniversary of his professional debut, he's 21-4 and is on a 7-fight winning streak.

Yes, I made a lofty claim, and I think I backed it up.


Posted by saemskin

John Fitch is on a larger win streak than Anderson, what do you say about him?


He's the clear No. 1 Contender in the Welterweight division, and I have him #3 in the UFC Welterweight division (I noticed that I still have Penn ranked as a Welterweight - I guess I should change that ).

I could go on, but I don't think this is a novel or contentious position to take; my guess is (most) everybody here agrees that Fitch deserves to face the winner of Serra-St. Pierre.
Gipper
3/6/08 4:24:42PM
no. needs to get another belt at another weight class. best mw champion ever.
jiujitsufreak74
3/6/08 4:44:20PM
just for context i will lay out each champion of the UFC (not Superfight), who they defeated for their title and how many defenses they had. for people like Matt Hughes and Randy Couture i will label each of their successive reigns as different from their original.

HW
-Mark Coleman: defeated Dan Severn and had 0 defenses
-Maurice Smith: defeated Mark Coleman and had 1 defense (Tank Abbot)
-Randy Couture: defeated Maurice Smith and had 0 defenses (stripped of title after contract dispute)
-Bas Rutten: defeated Kevin Randleman and had 0 defenses (retired)
-Kevin Randleman: defeated Pete Williams and had 1 defense (Pedro Rizzo)
-Randy Couture: defeated Kevin Randleman and had 2 defenses (Pedro Rizzo x2)
-Josh Barnett: defeated Randy Couture and had 0 defenses (stripped of title due to steroids)
-Ricco Rodriguez: defeated Randy Couture and had 0 defenses
-Tim Sylvia: defeated Pedro Rizzo and had 1 defense (Gan McGee and lost title due to steroids after that)
-Frank Mir: defeated Tim Sylvia (vacant belt) and had 0 defenses (bike accident)
**-Andrei Arlovski: defeated Tim Sylvia ad had 2 defenses (Justin Eilers and Paul Buentello)
-Tim Sylvia: defeated Andrei Arlovski and had 2 defenses (Andrei Arlovski and Jeff Monson)
-Randy Couture: defeated Tim Sylvia and had 1 defense (Gabriel Gonzaga and then left)
-Antonio Nogueira: defeated Tim Sylvia (interim belt)

**Andrei was technically Interim Champion when he defended against Eilers but was later promoted to full champion after Mir was out indefinitely

To sum up HW...no man has more then 2 consecutive title defenses during their reign (Couture, Arlovski and Sylvia).


LHW
-Frank Shamrock: defeated Kevin Jackson and had 4 defenses (Igor Zinoviev, Jeremy Horn, John Lober, and Tito Ortiz and then retired)
-Tito Ortiz: defeated Wanderlei Silva and had 5 defenses (Yuki Kondo, Evan Tanner, Elvis Sinosic, Vladimir Matyushenko and Ken Shamrock)
-Randy Couture(interim champion after Liddell): defeated Tito Ortiz and had 0 defenses
-Vitor Belfort: defeated Randy Couture and had 0 defenses
-Randy Couture: defeated Vitor Belfort and had 0 defenses
-Chuck Liddell: defeated Randy Couture and had 4 defenses (Jeremy Horn, Randy Couture, Renato Sobral and Tito Ortiz)
-Quinton Jackson: defeated Chuck Liddell and has 1defense (Dan Henderson)

To sum up the MW, Ortiz had the most consecutive defensive with 5 and Shamrock and Liddell both had 4. keep in mind that Shamrock was not defeated.


MW
-Dave Menne: defeated Gil Castillo and had 0 defenses
-Murilo Bustamante: defeated Dave Menne and had 1 defense (Matt Lindland) then left the UFC for PRIDE
-Evan Tanner: defeated David Terrell and had 0 defenses
-Rich Franklin: defeated Evan Tanner and had 2 defenses (Nate Quarry and David Loiseau)
-Anderson Silva: defeated Rich Franklin and has 3 defenses (Nate Marquardt, Rich Franklin and Dan Henderson)

To sum up the MW division, Anderson Silva has the most title defenses with 3 and is by far the most dominant MW champion in UFC history.

WW
-Pat Miletich: defeated Mikey Burnett and had 4 defenses (Jorge Patino, Andre Pederneiras, John Alessio and Shonie Carter)
-Carlos Newton: defeated Pat Miletich and had 0 defenses
-Matt Hughes: defeated Carlos Newton and had 5 defenses (Hayato Sakurai, Carlos Newton, Gil Castillo, Sean Sherk and Frank Trigg)
-BJ Penn: defeated Matt Hughes and had 0 defenses (left UFC)
-Matt Hughes: defeated GSP and had 2 defenses (Frank Trigg and BJ Penn)
-GSP: defeated Matt Hughes and had 0 defenses
-Matt Serra: defeated GSP and has 0 defenses (GSP is now interim champion)

To sum up the WW division Matt Hughes has the most consecutive title defenses with 5. he also has the most title defenses (in total) then any other UFC champion with 7. imo he is the greatest champion in UFC history.


LW
-Jens Pulver: defeated Caol Uno and had 2 defenses (Dennis Hallman and BJ Penn) and then was stripped of the title (contract dispute)
***at UFC 41 BJ Penn and Caol Uno fought to a draw for the vacant title***
-Sean Sherk: defeated Kenny Florian and had 1 defense (Hermes Franca) and then was stripped of the title (steroids)
-BJ Penn: defeated Joe Stevenson and has 0 defenses

To sum up the LW division Pulver is technically the most decorated champion. since the championship is very young it is difficult to have a LW champion as the best champion in UFC history


My Conclusion: Matt Hughes is the greatest Champion in UFC history do to sheer title defenses and utter dominance throughout his reign. However, at the rate he is going Silva may surpass Hughes as greatest of all time however as of now i will go with Hughes.
Chuteboxer
3/6/08 5:01:28PM

Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by roadking95th

I find it hard to say any one fighter is the greatest of all times. I'd rather go with greatest of their time. Some fighters will suffer from training techniques, opponents skill levels, exposure, etc.. These reasons are why I would shy away from such proclamations. Silva is proving he is the greatest right NOW.


You're right. I didn't specify in my original post, but yes, when comparing athletes (of any sport), I always try to evaluate their accomplishments in context. And of course it's also difficult to predict the future, especially in this sport, but that doesn't stop any of us from trying.


Posted by Korsakov

the difference between chuck's reign and anderson's reign is gigantic.


I was going to say almost the same thing, although I wouldn't call the difference "gigantic." Chuck's wins over Tito and Randy are, in my mind, similar to Silva's wins over Franklin and Henderson, but I agree that Silva has faced more varied competition, on the whole.


Posted by Chuteboxer

Silva's only had three title defenses. Remember, Lutter didn't make weight?


Good point. The win was impressive, but inasmuch as title defenses are our measuring stick, it can't be counted (just as Matt Hughes' wins over Gracie and Riggs can't be counted).


Posted by Chuteboxer

when he's only had a few defenses and suddenly everyone's kissing his ass, it's been blown out of proportion.


I disagree. First, "a few" title defenses is historic. 7 or 8 of them would simply be epic, and possibly even unheard of (I haven't done thorough research, as you pointed out).

Also, people keep pointing to the lack of depth of the UFC's Middleweight division as a mitigating factor. I don't argue that the division is the UFC's weakest right now, but the depth of the division isn't a relevant factor, by itself. It's the quality of Anderson Silva's opposition that's important, and that has been very impressive: Rich Franklin is a Top-5 Middleweight, Nate Marquardt is Top-10, and Dan Henderson is the consensus #2 and among the Top 10, pound-for-pound.

I don't know how many fighters have four wins over Top-10 guys in their division, or three over Top-5 guys.

Finally, the nature of Silva's victories has literally defied belief. If you had told me two years ago that a 185-lb fighter would KO Chris Leben in 49 seconds, crush Rich Franklin twice, catch Travis Lutter in a triangle with two bad knees, pound out Nate Marquardt, and submit Dan Henderson more quickly than Big Nog did 5 years ago, I would have said you were completely up a tree.

I predicted a win for Silva over Henderson, and I thought the fight was as close to a "toss-up" as I could imagine. The one thing that I was absolutely sure would not happen was Silva catching Hendo in a submission hold.



I admit, his wins are decisive, and at least very impressive...I wasn't arguing that. It's just that, to me, Hendo was his only true test, that's all..Don't get me wrong, Rich is a great fighter, and I'm sure Marquardt's decent, and so is Lutter, but none of them could've beaten Hendo. And honestly, if a rematch between Silva and Hendo happens, I still will pick Hendo to win it, as crazy as that sounds...

But who knows? Honestly, if Silva keeps defending his title the way he has, eventually he WILL be known as the greatest champ in the UFC.
Ordep
3/6/08 5:21:25PM

geeeez..... why do I have to see people mentioning GSP in every Anderson topic when the guy is not the champ yet, has ZERO defenses and the WW Division it's already stacked. Don't mess with his last name, I'm sure he wants(or have) a family so let his nuts go.
MMA
3/6/08 8:26:05PM

Posted by AchillesHeel
Yushin Okami and Silva each won convincingly at UFC 82, and to my knowledge, neither suffered any notable injury. They could easily meet in the Octagon in June or July. Silva by 1st-round TKO.


Okami broke his right hand in his fight. :\

Oh, and it's not (just) about how many title defences Silva has, but also the way he defended them. He's pretty much walked through all of his opponents (maybe with the exception of Lutter) since coming to the UFC.
saemskin
3/6/08 8:57:46PM
you all know that Maximus was the best fighter ever!

These little mma girls and their tapping and towel throwing. HAH! It only counts when the loser is DEAD!
AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
3/6/08 9:45:06PM

Posted by Chuteboxer

Unless someone has already beaten me to it and I just didn't notice it, I'd like to correct just one thing from the original poster...

Silva's only had three title defenses. Remember, Lutter didn't make weight? That title defense did not count. Marquardt, Franklin, Hendo. That's three defenses.

.




haha he fought franklin twice. 1+2+1 = 4 (lutter makes it 5)

I fully agree that he is the greatest champion in ufc history. the only one he can be compared to is the iceman.

haha what happend to all the dan henderson bandwagoners. I knew he was going to lose, if they fight again he will lose once more. I honestly think dan has a better chance of beating rampage then a silva rematch. Dan and rich are my 2 favourite middle weights other then silva. Silva is on another planet however.
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