Anderson's first rematch

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pv3Hpv3p
9/19/07 5:16:56PM
I had brought this up in another thread, but thought it might be worth throwing it out there again to see if ya'all had any thought on the subject...

I noticed that Rich is Anderson's first rematch (please correct me if I'm wrong and throw out most of this thread in that case)... Normally I wouldn't have thought twice about this, but it keeps mulling around in my head...

first and foremost let me say, Anderson is one of the most dominant and exciting champs I have seen in a long time... He has a well rounded game and maybe the sickest MT in the MMA world...

With that said, I'd like to bring us all back to their first encounter and remember Rich's words... "I think I can beat him in the clinch"... As he and we all found out was a BAD GAMEPLAN... Now if we take into account a few things here...

1) Rich is a smart person and fighter... It's hard to imagine him making the same mistake twice

2) With the evolution of MMA, I think we've see from guys like Randy and Rampage that a sound gameplan is paramount to winning in octagon

3) Does Rich know what to expect and can he capatalize on this one little thing that might give him an advantage in this fight?


Sorry about the poll guys, hit the wrong button and now I can't edit it
NatedawgThaM
9/19/07 5:32:56PM
Rich will last and extra round but still will get KTFO! Anderson pin point accuracy is just overwhelming and he hits HARD! The only way I can see Rich winning is pulling a forrest griffin at 72 jab and jump out or LNP 5 rounds....
loonytnt
9/19/07 5:40:16PM
i think rich will do good in this fight
Lay_N_Pray
9/19/07 6:04:26PM
Anderson Silva is too dangerous on the ground for Franklin honestly...Franklins only chance is to box, and I mean that in the most literal sense possible. He needs to do a lot of jabbing and sticking from the outside, and he needs to throw in some leg kicks and not look for a KO.

If Franklin can successfully score from the outside and pepper him with some low leg kicks he can win a decision. But I think Rich is gonna want to go for the KO and end up getting KO'd himself in the process.
grappler0000
9/19/07 6:13:51PM

Posted by Lay_N_Pray

Anderson Silva is too dangerous on the ground for Franklin honestly...Franklins only chance is to box, and I mean that in the most literal sense possible. He needs to do a lot of jabbing and sticking from the outside, and he needs to throw in some leg kicks and not look for a KO.

If Franklin can successfully score from the outside and pepper him with some low leg kicks he can win a decision. But I think Rich is gonna want to go for the KO and end up getting KO'd himself in the process.



I disagree...Franklin's best chance at winning is GnP. There is no other game plan that will work for him. I know it will be hard for him to abandon the standup, since that's how he likes to do business, but he knows it's what he has to do. I just hope his pride doesn't get the best of him.
Mastodon2
9/19/07 6:33:54PM
Anderson knows that Rich will do everything to avoid the clinch, and will most likely have worked on clinch defense and escape so he won't get wrecked (as quickly) if Anderson locks it on. Rich is probably working on his GnP or his LnP to get a win over Anderson, so I would bet that Anderson has improved something in his game to surprise Rich again.

Anderson's skills are just so far ahead of Rich's atm that I don't see Rich being able to really dominate in any area. Rich could catch Anderson with a submission, but I don't think Silva will hang around on the ground long enough for Rich to get that, or to get much GnP or LnP in. I see it as unlikely that Anderson will get caught on his feet too, his Muay Thai is pretty slick and greasy, he has done an ace job of translating MT into MMA.
SpiderSilva
9/19/07 6:35:38PM
its hard to game plan vs someone whos fights end soooo fast we havent scratched the surface on what this dude has
Ivote Anderson Silva Pound4pound the best fighter in the world if fedor doesnt fight for a while
Copenhagen
9/19/07 7:44:31PM

Posted by SpiderSilva
Ivote Anderson Silva Pound4pound the best fighter in the world if fedor doesnt fight for a while



I don't see how you can make that assumption, since the UFC middleweight division has a somewhat disappointing roster. I'd like to see him fight others before even thinking of him as number one P4P. Is he in the top 5 P4P? Easily.
johny_rotten
9/19/07 8:03:38PM

Posted by pv3Hpv3p

I had brought this up in another thread, but thought it might be worth throwing it out there again to see if ya'all had any thought on the subject...

I noticed that Rich is Anderson's first rematch (please correct me if I'm wrong and throw out most of this thread in that case)... Normally I wouldn't have thought twice about this, but it keeps mulling around in my head...

first and foremost let me say, Anderson is one of the most dominant and exciting champs I have seen in a long time... He has a well rounded game and maybe the sickest MT in the MMA world...

With that said, I'd like to bring us all back to their first encounter and remember Rich's words... "I think I can beat him in the clinch"... As he and we all found out was a BAD GAMEPLAN... Now if we take into account a few things here...

1) Rich is a smart person and fighter... It's hard to imagine him making the same mistake twice

2) With the evolution of MMA, I think we've see from guys like Randy and Rampage that a sound gameplan is paramount to winning in octagon

3) Does Rich know what to expect and can he capatalize on this one little thing that might give him an advantage in this fight?


Sorry about the poll guys, hit the wrong button and now I can't edit it




I don't see Rich making the mistake of thinking he can dominate with power on the inside, but he will still suffer the same fate. Randy is able o game plan victories because he exploits a weakness in his opponents games that will allow him to utilize the part of his game that is better than his opponents. In Rich's case I don't think this applies because there is not one aspect of MMA Rich is better at than Anderson. The other problem is Anderson hasn't shown a weakness in about 4 years. His last real loss to Chonnan he didn't resemble the fighter he is today.
wagere
9/20/07 10:18:35AM
I think Richs ground game is his best chance. Rich has 9 wins by submission compared to Andersons 3. Half of Andersons 4 losses have came by submission.
Junior24
9/20/07 11:25:12AM
Maybe this is not relative, but do you realize Dan Henderson is the Pride's MW champ. The same division Anderson fought in.

Henderson will kill Anderson. Im sorry but, Rich is not that great to me. Top 10? Probably. But no where in the class of Hendo and Anderson.

Hendo will go back to his natural weightclass and run through the MW division.
raindrops21
9/20/07 11:30:58AM
Ok, here's my thoughts on this fight.

If you go back and watch Silva/Franklin I and Silva's subsequent fights, you'll notice a few things about Silva.

1) Franklin was winning the stand-up before Silva locked in the clinch.

Before you flame me to death. Go back and watch the fight. Rich was landing some nice 1-2 combinations and at one point rocked Silva with a straight shot down the middle. Silva shakes his head, like he's trying to shake the cobwebs out, and then proceeds to move in quickly to grab the clinch. We all know what happened next as Rich thought he was going to power out of it.

2) Silva's ground game isn't what everyone thinks it is.

I don't think Silva can submit Franklin. Many people have questioned Silva's black belt BJJ status saying it was more of a gift from the Nogueira brothers. In my opinion, Lutter exposed Silva's ground game. Knee surgery aside, Lutter was able to take Silva down and pass his guard pretty easily. If that would've been Franklin sitting on Silva in the mount, that fight would've been over. To me, the only danger for Franklin on the ground against Silva is the upkicks. They are devastating and can hurt you bad. Lutter suffered those kicks before he was caught in the triangle. He received a few upkicks and fell into the triangle pretty much.

3) Silva has very little wrestling skill and weak takedown defense.

Rich should be able to takedown Silva without much of a problem. He'll have to watch out for knees on the way in (Carlos Newton), but this goes back to my point that he should set up his takedown with a few punches, but stay away from the clinch.

Now don't get me wrong, Silva can win this fight as well, these are just my keys for Franklin to win.

For Silva to win, he needs to:

1) Keep the fight standing.

Anderson's pin point striking and devastating Muay Thai are second to hardly anyone in the fight game today. In order to be successful against Rich, he's going to have to use some strikes to close the distance and set up his devastating clinch. He should expect Rich to try to take him down and look for an opportunity for a knee strike on the way in.

2) Tie up on the bottom.

Rich has good ground control, and will look to utilize his ground and pound to wear Silva down. I don't think Silva has a good enough ground game to catch Rich in a submission, so I think his best bet would be to tie up Rich and work for a stand-up. He should also try to utilize the cage to work to getting the fight back to the feet. If he can separate Rich, he should look to land some of his devastating upkicks to try and end the fight.

3) The longer the fight goes the worse it is for Silva.

Rich's conditioning is second to none and the longer this fight goes, the worse it's going to be for Silva. I expect him to be on his back a while in this fight and if he keeps getting taken down and trying to work from the bottom to get to his feet, he's going to extend a lot of energy. We all know Rich can go five rounds, the question is, can Silva? He should look to close the gap early and look for an opportunity to end this fight quickly. If he gets the clinch, he should be prepared to start firing immediately, because Rich will definitely have a defense and a gameplan for that this time around.

So, all in all, I think this is a closer fight than most people are saying. Rich can definitely win if he utilizes a sound gameplan and stays away from Silva's devastating clinch. Silva needs to work on getting that clinch and keeping the fight on it's feet. Look for Silva to use more kicks this time around too keep Franklin off guard and guessing.

Great fight and I'm looking forward to it.
jocka
9/20/07 11:34:19AM
I see Anderson going through Franklin once again, maybee its gonna take a bit longer but i don t see how Frankin could beat him maybee one lucky punch but i dont see that happening. Good luck to Franklin hes stil a agood guy
johny_rotten
9/20/07 2:52:10PM
I didn't want to quote you because your post was so long, ughh!!! Franklin doesn't possess the takedown/wresteling skill that Nate M. has, and Nate couldn't hold Anderson down either. You question Anderson's black belt, but then mention he submitted a fellow black belt. Rich doesn't have a black belt to even question. The only point you made that I agree with is that the longer this fight goes the better chance Franklin has. He is a cardio machine, and has gone the distance in a title fight before. this is the only advantage Rich has.
Rush
9/20/07 2:56:02PM

Posted by johny_rotten

The only point you made that I agree with is that the longer this fight goes the better chance Franklin has. He is a cardio machine, and has gone the distance in a title fight before. this is the only advantage Rich has.




Point taken, but one can question how that cardio will hold up after eating a number of Silva's punches, kicks and knees.
ncordless
9/20/07 3:07:20PM

Posted by johny_rotten


Posted by pv3Hpv3p

I had brought this up in another thread, but thought it might be worth throwing it out there again to see if ya'all had any thought on the subject...

I noticed that Rich is Anderson's first rematch (please correct me if I'm wrong and throw out most of this thread in that case)... Normally I wouldn't have thought twice about this, but it keeps mulling around in my head...

first and foremost let me say, Anderson is one of the most dominant and exciting champs I have seen in a long time... He has a well rounded game and maybe the sickest MT in the MMA world...

With that said, I'd like to bring us all back to their first encounter and remember Rich's words... "I think I can beat him in the clinch"... As he and we all found out was a BAD GAMEPLAN... Now if we take into account a few things here...

1) Rich is a smart person and fighter... It's hard to imagine him making the same mistake twice

2) With the evolution of MMA, I think we've see from guys like Randy and Rampage that a sound gameplan is paramount to winning in octagon

3) Does Rich know what to expect and can he capatalize on this one little thing that might give him an advantage in this fight?


Sorry about the poll guys, hit the wrong button and now I can't edit it




I don't see Rich making the mistake of thinking he can dominate with power on the inside, but he will still suffer the same fate. Randy is able o game plan victories because he exploits a weakness in his opponents games that will allow him to utilize the part of his game that is better than his opponents. In Rich's case I don't think this applies because there is not one aspect of MMA Rich is better at than Anderson. The other problem is Anderson hasn't shown a weakness in about 4 years. His last real loss to Chonnan he didn't resemble the fighter he is today.




Rich is better at wrestling... even though Rich is not that great at it. Silva has never shown the ability to stop the takedown against an opponent who is as strong as him.
nubby
9/20/07 6:37:48PM
I'm going to watch that fight tonight. Maybe we are underestimating Rich.
fightfann
9/20/07 7:50:28PM
i don't think rich will have success by staying outside and trying to jab/box Anderson out to a decision. Anderson, unlike chuck, isn't a counter punch, wait for you to come to me, style fighter. i think he will take it to rich, and if Rich tries to stand outside, he is going to be picked apart. Silva's striking is seemingly laser guided.

I think rich could do something if he tried some GnP, as long as he stayed away from the submissions. other than that, i see rich taking damage in the first round, and being overwhelmed in the second. he won't fall into the MT clinch again of course, so it will just take a bit longer.

I am ready for the UFC to get some more competition for A.Silva.
ColdCutCombo
9/21/07 11:13:36PM
im sorry guys but rich is getting KO'd, i like rich but hes an underdog no matter what anyone says, anderson is a possible reigning champ of the ufc in the middleweight division theres a few fighters i see beating him and one of them is not rich
Pitbull09
9/22/07 12:27:00AM
Gameplan is essential in winning your fight, in the NFL you always see in the playoffs a team beat the other that already beat them in the season and its because they know their strengths and weaknesses while the other team has to just keep working on their strengths. UFC is jsut the same, a rematch is hard for the winner because they still dont know much about what they should do in the next fight but the same thing simply because it won them the fight the first time. If Rich changes up his gameplan, Anderson Silva cant read his mind but I still think Silva is better
Aether
9/22/07 8:52:17AM
I'm sorry raindrop but I think you were watching a different fight from the rest of us. At no point was Silva anywhere close to being rocked and at no point was Rich winning the standup. The beginning couple of minutes consisted of nothing more than a feeling-out process with a couple of leg kicks here and there and at no point did rich land any sort of 1-2 combination that phased silva. You can claim that Silva's ground game isn't what people claim it to be, but even if that claim were true he would still far outskill rich on the ground, and has outskilled fighters who are far superior to rich on the ground. I don't really know what fight you were watching, and I think Rich has a better chance than most give him credit for, but your entire analysis of that first fight is ludicrous IMO.
raindrops21
9/26/07 1:56:54PM

Posted by Aether

I'm sorry raindrop but I think you were watching a different fight from the rest of us. At no point was Silva anywhere close to being rocked and at no point was Rich winning the standup. The beginning couple of minutes consisted of nothing more than a feeling-out process with a couple of leg kicks here and there and at no point did rich land any sort of 1-2 combination that phased silva. You can claim that Silva's ground game isn't what people claim it to be, but even if that claim were true he would still far outskill rich on the ground, and has outskilled fighters who are far superior to rich on the ground. I don't really know what fight you were watching, and I think Rich has a better chance than most give him credit for, but your entire analysis of that first fight is ludicrous IMO.



Re-watch the fight.

I agree with you that the first couple of minutes were a feeling out process, that's how most fights are. But right before Anderson moved in and started clinching, Rich nails him with a nice punch (may not have been a one-two, I'll have to rewatch that part), and you can clearly see Silva shake his head to try and get rid of the cobwebs. He immediately closes the distance with him and starts the thai clinch.

And I TOTALLY disagree with you that Anderson would outskill Rich on the ground. Silva has ONE win by an actual submission. (By that I mean, not a submission from strikes). And it was against Lutter. Granted Lutter does have a good ground game, it was the upkicks that did him in. Lutter ate two or three upkicks and fell into the triangle.

Now, Anderson has lost two fights by submission and both to "gatekeepers". Ryo Chonan's I'll let slide, because that was such a strange submission. But Anderson didn't finish him off and he's really a 170lber.

His other submission loss was to Daiju Takase. Go watch that fight and see Silva get completely outclassed on the ground by far inferior fighter who also should've been fighting at 170. Silva's ground game in that fight was awful by a "BJJ Blackbelt."

IMO, everyone here is underestimating Rich's ground game. He doesn't have to have great wrestling to take Silva down, Silva's takedown defense is not great.

And as far as your comment about guys that are far superior on the ground than Rich, I see two and neither one of them would beat Franklin in an MMA match. Jeremy Horn and Travis Lutter.

I think Rich has the tools to beat Silva and I think if he has a solid gameplan it will happen. He needs to work some strikes from the outside to set up the take down and then proceed to pass the guard and ground 'n' pound his way to victory.
BigEvil
9/26/07 2:01:16PM
I like both Franklin and Silva. I think overall Slva is the better fighter, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if Franklin took this match to set up a really good 3rd swing match!
jeremygreen
9/26/07 8:18:50PM
It will last longer but Rich will still loose, Silva is just too dang good.
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