what american do u think has the best bjj?

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higdon10
11/16/08 12:56:36PM
Rob Drysdale and Dean Lister
Playground_Samurai
11/16/08 10:07:56PM
He's not the best. And like he says, he doesn't have the credentials that some of the guys out there have. But Dustin Hazelette's bjj has looked absolutely awesome.
SociopathX
11/17/08 12:13:59AM
It's obviously Paulo Filho
Wolfenstein
11/17/08 10:21:15PM

Posted by Jackelope


Posted by Wolfenstein

Eddie Bravo is the most innovative BJJ instructor, and Robert Drysdale is the best US BJJ practitioner.



About that (and I know I'll catch hell for it)- I think he gets far too much credit for the rubber guard. It hasn't proven to be any more effective than traditional forms of BJJ. Granted it's got some cool stuff involved with it, and certainly Bravo has come up with innovative ideas, but I don't think his name deserves mention on a modern best BJJ practicioners list.

If you want my dead honest opinion, too- I don't think he's a very good trainer considering he hasn't been able to push any of his guys up to the highest level. His time clock is wearing thin when it comes to arguments that say "Give it a few years for a master of rubber guard to join the sport" He's been in it for quite a while now and if you ask me there's other trainers who have done far better things within the given time frame.

I think the dude smokes far too much pot and parties far too much




I think a big part of Shinya Aoki and Dustin Hazelett's success has been because of the rubber guard. Other guys have it in the arsenal and practice it regularly, but we just haven't seen much of it, like the Diaz brothers, BJ Penn, and Frank Mir. The Rubber guard isn't any more or less effective than the traditional guard, but it is another tool in the arsenal that a lot of people aren't used to defending.

You're right in the respect that he hasn't had any of his own guys go out and dominate the mundials or anything, but I think a big part is due to the relative infancy of his schools. As a BJJ practitioner I wouldn't put him on the best of modern practitioners, but since we are only mentioning guys in the US I think he deserves mention.

"Your basic jiu-jitsu is terrible. You keep trying this crazy Twister thing"

~Jean Jacues Machado to Eddie Bravo
StorminYourman
11/18/08 11:38:21AM
Pure BJJ would be Drysdale
BJJ in aplication to MMA. Penn or Serra
jiujitsufreak74
11/18/08 1:30:13PM

Posted by StorminYourman

Pure BJJ would be Drysdale
BJJ in aplication to MMA. Penn or Serra



definitely not Serra. for someone who is as talented in BJJ as himself, he rarely uses it.
nickcuc547
11/18/08 5:15:56PM
I know he isn't the best but dustin hazlett should be in the conversation.
StorminYourman
11/18/08 10:05:16PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by StorminYourman

Pure BJJ would be Drysdale
BJJ in aplication to MMA. Penn or Serra



definitely not Serra. for someone who is as talented in BJJ as himself, he rarely uses it.



I disagree I think he does when the timing is right.
Jackelope
11/18/08 10:19:19PM

Posted by Wolfenstein


Posted by Jackelope


Posted by Wolfenstein

Eddie Bravo is the most innovative BJJ instructor, and Robert Drysdale is the best US BJJ practitioner.



About that (and I know I'll catch hell for it)- I think he gets far too much credit for the rubber guard. It hasn't proven to be any more effective than traditional forms of BJJ. Granted it's got some cool stuff involved with it, and certainly Bravo has come up with innovative ideas, but I don't think his name deserves mention on a modern best BJJ practicioners list.

If you want my dead honest opinion, too- I don't think he's a very good trainer considering he hasn't been able to push any of his guys up to the highest level. His time clock is wearing thin when it comes to arguments that say "Give it a few years for a master of rubber guard to join the sport" He's been in it for quite a while now and if you ask me there's other trainers who have done far better things within the given time frame.

I think the dude smokes far too much pot and parties far too much




I think a big part of Shinya Aoki and Dustin Hazelett's success has been because of the rubber guard. Other guys have it in the arsenal and practice it regularly, but we just haven't seen much of it, like the Diaz brothers, BJ Penn, and Frank Mir. The Rubber guard isn't any more or less effective than the traditional guard, but it is another tool in the arsenal that a lot of people aren't used to defending.

You're right in the respect that he hasn't had any of his own guys go out and dominate the mundials or anything, but I think a big part is due to the relative infancy of his schools. As a BJJ practitioner I wouldn't put him on the best of modern practitioners, but since we are only mentioning guys in the US I think he deserves mention.

"Your basic jiu-jitsu is terrible. You keep trying this crazy Twister thing"

~Jean Jacues Machado to Eddie Bravo



Sorry I somehow missed this quote a while back. Some very good points for sure. The whole argument about the Eddie Bravo schools being in their infancy is one of the things I'm not fond of hearing and I kind of addressed it in my original post. I just think that there's been enough years now and I also think other trainers have done more in less time. Plus, I went to a tenth planet jiu jitsu school for several months and was not very impressed with the method of teaching and especially not the general attitude that tenth planet instructors seem to have. (I met several of them aside from my own and attended several seminars. Even ones ran by Eddie Bravo) I like Eddie Bravo's passion for the sport and his creativity, but I don't feel that his training intensity and dedication to his physical self (outside of flexibility, of course) matches what other trainers have.

Also, I hate to see Eddie Bravo's rubber guard getting credit for the omoplata
Wolfenstein
11/18/08 10:27:47PM
Touche sir. I will agee, the level of intensity at the schools aren't exactly rigorous. I think more time is spent on theory.
Jackelope
11/18/08 10:37:04PM

Posted by Wolfenstein

Touche sir. I will agee, the level of intensity at the schools aren't exactly rigorous. I think more time is spent on theory.



I think that's tied directly into the fact that many of the schools are so full of potheads

Seriously, though... there is something to be said about theory and it has certainly led to creativity, but often times at those schools/seminars I was blown away by how out of shape and inflated the egos were of practicioners. Sorry, it's an honest observation Maybe I just had some bad experiences, though
Beardotheweirdo
11/21/08 6:23:15PM

Posted by Jackelope


Posted by Wolfenstein

Eddie Bravo is the most innovative BJJ instructor, and Robert Drysdale is the best US BJJ practitioner.



About that (and I know I'll catch hell for it)- I think he gets far too much credit for the rubber guard. It hasn't proven to be any more effective than traditional forms of BJJ. Granted it's got some cool stuff involved with it, and certainly Bravo has come up with innovative ideas, but I don't think his name deserves mention on a modern best BJJ practicioners list.

If you want my dead honest opinion, too- I don't think he's a very good trainer considering he hasn't been able to push any of his guys up to the highest level. His time clock is wearing thin when it comes to arguments that say "Give it a few years for a master of rubber guard to join the sport" He's been in it for quite a while now and if you ask me there's other trainers who have done far better things within the given time frame.

I think the dude smokes far too much pot and parties far too much




Aoki learned from Bravo. And as far as BJJ in MMA goes, Aoki's pretty amazing
Jackelope
11/21/08 6:36:24PM

Posted by Beardotheweirdo


Posted by Jackelope


Posted by Wolfenstein

Eddie Bravo is the most innovative BJJ instructor, and Robert Drysdale is the best US BJJ practitioner.



About that (and I know I'll catch hell for it)- I think he gets far too much credit for the rubber guard. It hasn't proven to be any more effective than traditional forms of BJJ. Granted it's got some cool stuff involved with it, and certainly Bravo has come up with innovative ideas, but I don't think his name deserves mention on a modern best BJJ practicioners list.

If you want my dead honest opinion, too- I don't think he's a very good trainer considering he hasn't been able to push any of his guys up to the highest level. His time clock is wearing thin when it comes to arguments that say "Give it a few years for a master of rubber guard to join the sport" He's been in it for quite a while now and if you ask me there's other trainers who have done far better things within the given time frame.

I think the dude smokes far too much pot and parties far too much




Aoki learned from Bravo. And as far as BJJ in MMA goes, Aoki's pretty amazing



That's a misconception. While he may have worked briefly with Bravo in the past, he certainly did not learn his jiu jitsu from Eddie Bravo alone
jiujitsufreak74
11/21/08 7:19:15PM

Posted by StorminYourman


Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by StorminYourman

Pure BJJ would be Drysdale
BJJ in aplication to MMA. Penn or Serra



definitely not Serra. for someone who is as talented in BJJ as himself, he rarely uses it.



I disagree I think he does when the timing is right.



he only uses his JJ defensively, and even then, it really isn't that solid. you said he uses it when the timing is right, well, i guess that means the timing wasn't right for him since 2002, which is when his last submission victory was. in terms of his MMA style of fighting, Serra really doesn't utilize his JJ skills.
jiujitsufreak74
11/21/08 7:23:13PM

Posted by Beardotheweirdo

Aoki learned from Bravo. And as far as BJJ in MMA goes, Aoki's pretty amazing



omg...to me, this is like saying Kimbo Slice is the best HW in the world. like Jackelope said Bravo and Aoki briefly worked together, and it wasn't even like Eddie was training Aoki, they were both working together to expand both fo their knowledge of JJ. just for your information, Aoki got his BJJ black belt under Yuki Nakai.
Jackelope
11/21/08 7:26:33PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by Beardotheweirdo

Aoki learned from Bravo. And as far as BJJ in MMA goes, Aoki's pretty amazing



omg...to me, this is like saying Kimbo Slice is the best HW in the world. like Jackelope said Bravo and Aoki briefly worked together, and it wasn't even like Eddie was training Aoki, they were both working together to expand both fo their knowledge of JJ. just for your information, Aoki got his BJJ black belt under Yuki Nakai.



This is why I always argue against the Eddie Bravo be-all-end-all of new jiu jitsu. People think that just because someone pulls rubber guard that Eddie Bravo taught them. Rubber guard has been around long before Eddie Bravo was on the scene. Even though Wikipedia lists Aoki as one of Eddie Bravo's students

He may have refined it and added some things, but he did not invent the concept of rubber guard.
tooly236
11/21/08 7:33:14PM
I think sometimes people forget the Hawaii is part of america.
jiujitsufreak74
11/21/08 7:33:24PM

Posted by Jackelope


Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by Beardotheweirdo

Aoki learned from Bravo. And as far as BJJ in MMA goes, Aoki's pretty amazing



omg...to me, this is like saying Kimbo Slice is the best HW in the world. like Jackelope said Bravo and Aoki briefly worked together, and it wasn't even like Eddie was training Aoki, they were both working together to expand both fo their knowledge of JJ. just for your information, Aoki got his BJJ black belt under Yuki Nakai.



This is why I always argue against the Eddie Bravo be-all-end-all of new jiu jitsu. People think that just because someone pulls rubber guard that Eddie Bravo taught them. Rubber guard has been around long before Eddie Bravo was on the scene. Even though Wikipedia lists Aoki as one of Eddie Bravo's students

He may have refined it and added some things, but he did not invent the concept of rubber guard.



hopefully our voices of reason can reign supreme over the false facts
Beardotheweirdo
11/21/08 7:51:22PM

Posted by Jackelope


Posted by Beardotheweirdo


Posted by Jackelope


Posted by Wolfenstein

Eddie Bravo is the most innovative BJJ instructor, and Robert Drysdale is the best US BJJ practitioner.



About that (and I know I'll catch hell for it)- I think he gets far too much credit for the rubber guard. It hasn't proven to be any more effective than traditional forms of BJJ. Granted it's got some cool stuff involved with it, and certainly Bravo has come up with innovative ideas, but I don't think his name deserves mention on a modern best BJJ practicioners list.

If you want my dead honest opinion, too- I don't think he's a very good trainer considering he hasn't been able to push any of his guys up to the highest level. His time clock is wearing thin when it comes to arguments that say "Give it a few years for a master of rubber guard to join the sport" He's been in it for quite a while now and if you ask me there's other trainers who have done far better things within the given time frame.

I think the dude smokes far too much pot and parties far too much




Aoki learned from Bravo. And as far as BJJ in MMA goes, Aoki's pretty amazing



That's a misconception. While he may have worked briefly with Bravo in the past, he certainly did not learn his jiu jitsu from Eddie Bravo alone



I know, I never said he learned his JJ from Bravo alone. I didn't mean to imply it either.

I think Aoki learned quite a bit from Bravo. More than the time spent together might indicate. That's all I was getting at.
Beardotheweirdo
11/21/08 7:54:35PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by Beardotheweirdo

Aoki learned from Bravo. And as far as BJJ in MMA goes, Aoki's pretty amazing



omg...to me, this is like saying Kimbo Slice is the best HW in the world. like Jackelope said Bravo and Aoki briefly worked together, and it wasn't even like Eddie was training Aoki, they were both working together to expand both fo their knowledge of JJ. just for your information, Aoki got his BJJ black belt under Yuki Nakai.



WOW, Comparing Kimbo to Aoki.

Amazing does not equal best

So because Eddie wasn't Aoki's coach means Aoki didn't learn alot? Is That what you're trying to say.
jiujitsufreak74
11/21/08 8:23:00PM

Posted by Beardotheweirdo


Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by Beardotheweirdo

Aoki learned from Bravo. And as far as BJJ in MMA goes, Aoki's pretty amazing



omg...to me, this is like saying Kimbo Slice is the best HW in the world. like Jackelope said Bravo and Aoki briefly worked together, and it wasn't even like Eddie was training Aoki, they were both working together to expand both fo their knowledge of JJ. just for your information, Aoki got his BJJ black belt under Yuki Nakai.



WOW, Comparing Kimbo to Aoki.

Amazing does not equal best

So because Eddie wasn't Aoki's coach means Aoki didn't learn alot? Is That what you're trying to say.



i am telling you right now, Aoki did not even learn 1/20th of what he knows from Eddie Bravo. Aoki is my favorite fighter, so i am very sensitive about facts being thrown around involving him. Eddie Bravo is very overrated in the sense that he gets way too much credit; he didn't even invent rubber guard. and yes, i am saying that he didn't learn a lot, because he already knew most of what he knows before he trained with Bravo.

on a side note, Eddie Bravo did give Aoki the inspiration for the pants. and when they did convene they exchanged ideas, it wasn't as if Eddie was teaching Aoki everything he knew. Aoki had already been using the "rubber guard" before he met up with Eddie.
Beardotheweirdo
11/21/08 9:10:32PM

Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by Beardotheweirdo


Posted by jiujitsufreak74


Posted by Beardotheweirdo

Aoki learned from Bravo. And as far as BJJ in MMA goes, Aoki's pretty amazing



omg...to me, this is like saying Kimbo Slice is the best HW in the world. like Jackelope said Bravo and Aoki briefly worked together, and it wasn't even like Eddie was training Aoki, they were both working together to expand both fo their knowledge of JJ. just for your information, Aoki got his BJJ black belt under Yuki Nakai.



WOW, Comparing Kimbo to Aoki.

Amazing does not equal best

So because Eddie wasn't Aoki's coach means Aoki didn't learn alot? Is That what you're trying to say.



i am telling you right now, Aoki did not even learn 1/20th of what he knows from Eddie Bravo. Aoki is my favorite fighter, so i am very sensitive about facts being thrown around involving him. Eddie Bravo is very overrated in the sense that he gets way too much credit; he didn't even invent rubber guard. and yes, i am saying that he didn't learn a lot, because he already knew most of what he knows before he trained with Bravo.

on a side note, Eddie Bravo did give Aoki the inspiration for the pants. and when they did convene they exchanged ideas, it wasn't as if Eddie was teaching Aoki everything he knew. Aoki had already been using the "rubber guard" before he met up with Eddie.



Thanks for the info, I guess I'd been mislead
jiujitsufreak74
11/21/08 9:35:20PM

Posted by Beardotheweirdo
Thanks for the info, I guess I'd been mislead



no problem, sorry i came off so apprehensive
Bobby-B-Bonkers
11/23/08 7:29:58AM
Almost every1's answer was ok.... BJ PENN is the ONLY correct answer tho.
gsquat
11/24/08 12:06:27PM
Penn or Hazelett. Gotta be.

Edit: Runner up, Fickett.
Rush
11/24/08 9:07:41PM
Huh, last time I criticized Bravo I got burned for it.
Jackelope
11/24/08 11:15:24PM

Posted by Rush

Huh, last time I criticized Bravo I got burned for it.



LMAO- hopefully you held your ground.

I really tried to give Bravo's JJ a chance. Like I said- I studied at one of his schools and everything. There was a brief period there where I really believed in the rubber guard. Then I got to practicing against some Nova Uniao guys and some good wrestlers and I saw that it wasn't as effective as I was led to believe.
jiujitsufreak74
11/25/08 12:03:17AM

Posted by Jackelope


Posted by Rush

Huh, last time I criticized Bravo I got burned for it.



LMAO- hopefully you held your ground.

I really tried to give Bravo's JJ a chance. Like I said- I studied at one of his schools and everything. There was a brief period there where I really believed in the rubber guard. Then I got to practicing against some Nova Uniao guys and some good wrestlers and I saw that it wasn't as effective as I was led to believe.



that's because you need stretchy pants to unlock its true power
Rush
11/25/08 12:00:50PM

Posted by Jackelope


Posted by Rush

Huh, last time I criticized Bravo I got burned for it.



LMAO- hopefully you held your ground.

.



You know me.
slapshot
11/26/08 3:43:20AM

Posted by xposipx

Dean Lister has to be in this conversation.


Dean is probably one of the best straight BJJ guys and has the Trophy's to prove it but Id have to say Nate Diaz has some pretty impressive wins over highly skilled BJJ fighters so he should be in this mix as well.

Dean Lister
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