Alistair Overeem fails pre-fight drug test, likely out of UFC 146 title fight

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BuffaloDave
4/5/12 10:06:48AM

Posted by bjj1605

I personally think Mir is way more deserving AND would make for a much more competitive fight.

I'm honestly shocked that some people would rather see Hunt in there.

Hunt must have some "fan boy power" left over from his Pride days.

Thats the only way I can explain it to myself.



Why is it so shocking that people want to see Hunt over Mir? It's rather easy, with Hunt it will be a slug-fest, whereas Mir would get hit a few times and be done.

Fighters have done less to earn title shots. Under normal circumstances I'd say Hunt needs a win or two more against someone in the top 10, but since there might be a scramble for an opponent for JDS, Hunt's name should be thrown in the mix. Personally I still just want to see Mir fight Cain.


But hey if you have to explain to yourself that it's "fan boy power" thats fine, whatever helps you get through this. If not theres always Xanax.
KingCmb
4/5/12 12:35:03PM
MIR MIR MIR - he is ready willing capable and most of all clean
george112
4/5/12 12:51:52PM
Seriously what did the UFC expect.

They had to have had some inkling he was going to test positive. LOOK AT THE GUY
rush13
4/5/12 2:16:41PM

Posted by Bubbles

He isn't roiding.



Ya of course he isn't...and neither were Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire
cowcatcher
4/5/12 2:25:57PM

Posted by rush13


Posted by Bubbles

He isn't roiding.



Ya of course he isn't...and neither were Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire



He isn't roiding, or at least the test didn't show any roids. He's probably performance enhancing by injecting testosterone, but they found no roids in his system so I guess I'm with stupid too.

I guess the reason so many people are going to argue about this is because taking any performance enhancer = roiding to most people. It's mostly semantics as far as I'm concerned, as roiding/taking testosterone are both pretty similar means to the same end and both can land you a nice suspension and ruin gigantic fights.
airkerma
4/5/12 2:48:51PM

Posted by cowcatcher


Posted by rush13


Posted by Bubbles

He isn't roiding.



Ya of course he isn't...and neither were Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire



He isn't roiding, or at least the test didn't show any roids. He's probably performance enhancing by injecting testosterone, but they found no roids in his system so I guess I'm with stupid too.

I guess the reason so many people are going to argue about this is because taking any performance enhancer = roiding to most people. It's mostly semantics as far as I'm concerned, as roiding/taking testosterone are both pretty similar means to the same end and both can land you a nice suspension and ruin gigantic fights.


Well it comes down to splitting hairs I guess. Testosterone is defined as an anabolic steroid, and I think the term roids (roiding) pertains to anabolics according to roidssite.com and urbandictionary. Technically, testosterone would fall into that category as far as I can tell. I'm not weighing in on the reem situation in particular, but testosterone is an anabolic steroid and if your levels are way above normal as a result of taking testosterone, I think it would qualify as roiding.
mrsmiley
4/5/12 3:26:28PM
It's common knowledge horse meat comes up hot in a piss test. Just joking.
gartface
4/5/12 3:47:59PM
14:1 ratio? What's up Ultimate Warrior?
papercut
4/5/12 5:59:57PM
still a fan regardless. also, his body transformation from lhw to hw is actually very plausible to do naturally in the time he took to do it. here's hoping sample b comes back clean
mrsmiley
4/5/12 7:53:48PM

Posted by gartface

14:1 ratio? What's up Ultimate Warrior?



Ultimate shoot interview
bjj1605
4/5/12 8:23:40PM

Posted by papercut

still a fan regardless. also, his body transformation from lhw to hw is actually very plausible to do naturally in the time he took to do it. here's hoping sample b comes back clean



Give me one other example of a person who's gained that much size in that little time.
papercut
4/5/12 8:39:44PM

Posted by bjj1605


Posted by papercut

still a fan regardless. also, his body transformation from lhw to hw is actually very plausible to do naturally in the time he took to do it. here's hoping sample b comes back clean



Give me one other example of a person who's gained that much size in that little time.



Graeme is all natural. he's currently prepping for a natural body building competition. in 3 years he has packed on nearly 50 pounds of muscle. overeem between fights at lhw was walking around 220-230. so putting 20 pounds on with his frame wouldn't be hard at all in that time frame.
bjj1605
4/5/12 8:40:57PM

Posted by BuffaloDave


Posted by bjj1605

I personally think Mir is way more deserving AND would make for a much more competitive fight.

I'm honestly shocked that some people would rather see Hunt in there.

Hunt must have some "fan boy power" left over from his Pride days.

Thats the only way I can explain it to myself.



Why is it so shocking that people want to see Hunt over Mir? It's rather easy, with Hunt it will be a slug-fest, whereas Mir would get hit a few times and be done.

Fighters have done less to earn title shots. Under normal circumstances I'd say Hunt needs a win or two more against someone in the top 10, but since there might be a scramble for an opponent for JDS, Hunt's name should be thrown in the mix. Personally I still just want to see Mir fight Cain.


But hey if you have to explain to yourself that it's "fan boy power" thats fine, whatever helps you get through this. If not theres always Xanax.



First of all....

Its your OPINION that Hunt would make it a slug fest and Mir would lose quickly.

I personally think thats a piss poor opinion. In my opinion, Mir would be more exciting and have a MUCH better chance of winning.

Second....

Mir could reasonably be given a shot based off of his accomplishments in the UFC. Hunt can't.

There is no way you can argue, based off of what Hunt has done so far, that he deserves a title shot.

Therefore, the only thing left is fan boy power.
Adrenaline
4/5/12 9:26:43PM

Posted by pmoney

Lol, sorry man, I am not trying to jump on your ass or anything. And I do understand where you are coming from. Here in the US, it's supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, and yeah everyone is slamming The Reem before we even know what the status of the B sample is. So perhaps that is a bad job by the majority of the MMA community. However, it just seems that due to the circumstances, short of a clean B test, that AO is up a creek on this one. Given the stipulations of his license to fight Lesnar, I can't think of a single reason for his testosterone levels to be that high.




Its all good buddy, I'm the first to admit that all of this confuses the shit out of me, mostly I am just dissapointed that this fight isn't going to happen Whether he is on something or not the whole situation just flat out sucks.
Pookie
4/5/12 10:12:16PM

Posted by bjj1605

First of all....

Its your OPINION that Hunt would make it a slug fest and Mir would lose quickly.

I personally think thats a piss poor opinion. In my opinion, Mir would be more exciting and have a MUCH better chance of winning.

Second....

Mir could reasonably be given a shot based off of his accomplishments in the UFC. Hunt can't.

There is no way you can argue, based off of what Hunt has done so far, that he deserves a title shot.

Therefore, the only thing left is fan boy power.



First - It's also you're opinion that Mir would have a better chance of winning. So you're opinion on the matter doesn't discredit someone else's opinion either, as it's all subjective. Personally, i see Mir having absolutely no path to victory.

Second - Wanting a good/competitive fight isn't fan boy power. It's consumer interest. If someone thinks Hunt has more of a chance than Mir due to the styles, it's not necassarily because of "fan boy power". Sometimes it's simple logic.

and lastly - there is a way you can argue that what Hunt has done so far merits a title shot. It's called precedence. People have gotten title shots due to far less. It would be hard to argue that Hunt deserves it the most, but there's been a number of challengers who've won the HW title who got their title shot due to less. Frank Mir, Randy Couture, Brock Lesnar included.
BuffaloDave
4/5/12 10:40:14PM

Posted by bjj1605


Posted by BuffaloDave


Why is it so shocking that people want to see Hunt over Mir? It's rather easy, with Hunt it will be a slug-fest, whereas Mir would get hit a few times and be done.

Fighters have done less to earn title shots. Under normal circumstances I'd say Hunt needs a win or two more against someone in the top 10, but since there might be a scramble for an opponent for JDS, Hunt's name should be thrown in the mix. Personally I still just want to see Mir fight Cain.


But hey if you have to explain to yourself that it's "fan boy power" thats fine, whatever helps you get through this. If not theres always Xanax.



First of all....

Its your OPINION that Hunt would make it a slug fest and Mir would lose quickly.

I personally think thats a piss poor opinion. In my opinion, Mir would be more exciting and have a MUCH better chance of winning.

Second....

Mir could reasonably be given a shot based off of his accomplishments in the UFC. Hunt can't.

There is no way you can argue, based off of what Hunt has done so far, that he deserves a title shot.

Therefore, the only thing left is fan boy power.




Trying to come at me, saying I have a piss poor opinion for thinking Mir will be lose quickly, well, I think you must be smoking crack to think Mir would be more exciting, since we're giving our OPINIONS. Mir doesn't have the greatest chin, and JDS might just be the best striker in the HW division. Mir was almost put out by Big Nog.

Now, I never said Hunt deserves it, re- read my 2nd paragraph. Believe me I think Mir is definitely more deserving of a title shot. Like I said, I just really want to see the fight with Cain stay as is, to me that's more exciting of a fight than with JDS.



Bubbles
4/5/12 11:47:56PM

Posted by bjj1605


Posted by papercut

still a fan regardless. also, his body transformation from lhw to hw is actually very plausible to do naturally in the time he took to do it. here's hoping sample b comes back clean



Give me one other example of a person who's gained that much size in that little time.



Didn't Mir pack on like 30 pounds or so between Lesnar and Carwin?
Pookie
4/5/12 11:50:28PM

Posted by Bubbles


Posted by bjj1605


Posted by papercut

still a fan regardless. also, his body transformation from lhw to hw is actually very plausible to do naturally in the time he took to do it. here's hoping sample b comes back clean



Give me one other example of a person who's gained that much size in that little time.



Didn't Mir pack on like 30 pounds or so between Lesnar and Carwin?



250 to cutting to 265. so probably between 20-30 pounds but yes. He got big during that span.
grappler0000
4/6/12 12:22:40AM

Posted by Bubbles


Posted by bjj1605


Posted by papercut

still a fan regardless. also, his body transformation from lhw to hw is actually very plausible to do naturally in the time he took to do it. here's hoping sample b comes back clean



Give me one other example of a person who's gained that much size in that little time.



Didn't Mir pack on like 30 pounds or so between Lesnar and Carwin?



Muscle memory. Putting on muscle the second time around is much easier than the first. I don't think Mir is the greatest comparison.

IMO, it is possible to put on the amount of muscle that Overeem did in that time frame if all of the stars were aligned properly, but it would still be a daunting task. Also, everyone should keep in mind that most of it is functional muscle, not just show-muscle like a body builder would be putting on. Gaining mass is always a second priority for him behind his MMA/K-1 training, which makes the feat even more impressive.
Bubbles
4/6/12 12:42:14AM

Posted by grappler0000


Posted by Bubbles

Didn't Mir pack on like 30 pounds or so between Lesnar and Carwin?



Muscle memory. Putting on muscle the second time around is much easier than the first. I don't think Mir is the greatest comparison.



I don't recall Mir ever needing to cut to 265 and being jacked to shit prior to those above fights. Mind you I didn't really start to follow the sport until 2007-2008 so if was before then I wasn't aware
grappler0000
4/6/12 1:23:50AM

Posted by Bubbles


Posted by grappler0000


Posted by Bubbles

Didn't Mir pack on like 30 pounds or so between Lesnar and Carwin?



Muscle memory. Putting on muscle the second time around is much easier than the first. I don't think Mir is the greatest comparison.



I don't recall Mir ever needing to cut to 265 and being jacked to shit prior to those above fights. Mind you I didn't really start to follow the sport until 2007-2008 so if was before then I wasn't aware



He was pretty big at one point, earlier in his career. I don't know what weight he was at off the top of my head, but he was bigger than he was prior to his most recent weight gain. I'm sure part of it was new muscle, but I'm also certain at least part of it was re-gained.



edit: well, with the help of google, I can answer my own question.

Mir weighed in at 245 for UFC 100 and then 265 for UFC 107. I don't know what Frank's max weight was earlier in his career, but he was 257 at UFC 57...which is pictured below:

Image Attachment(s):
Photo Attachment 1
rush13
4/6/12 2:05:34AM

Posted by BuffaloDave


Posted by bjj1605


Posted by BuffaloDave


Why is it so shocking that people want to see Hunt over Mir? It's rather easy, with Hunt it will be a slug-fest, whereas Mir would get hit a few times and be done.

Fighters have done less to earn title shots. Under normal circumstances I'd say Hunt needs a win or two more against someone in the top 10, but since there might be a scramble for an opponent for JDS, Hunt's name should be thrown in the mix. Personally I still just want to see Mir fight Cain.


But hey if you have to explain to yourself that it's "fan boy power" thats fine, whatever helps you get through this. If not theres always Xanax.



First of all....

Its your OPINION that Hunt would make it a slug fest and Mir would lose quickly.

I personally think thats a piss poor opinion. In my opinion, Mir would be more exciting and have a MUCH better chance of winning.

Second....

Mir could reasonably be given a shot based off of his accomplishments in the UFC. Hunt can't.

There is no way you can argue, based off of what Hunt has done so far, that he deserves a title shot.

Therefore, the only thing left is fan boy power.




Trying to come at me, saying I have a piss poor opinion for thinking Mir will be lose quickly, well, I think you must be smoking crack to think Mir would be more exciting, since we're giving our OPINIONS. Mir doesn't have the greatest chin, and JDS might just be the best striker in the HW division. Mir was almost put out by Big Nog.

Now, I never said Hunt deserves it, re- read my 2nd paragraph. Believe me I think Mir is definitely more deserving of a title shot. Like I said, I just really want to see the fight with Cain stay as is, to me that's more exciting of a fight than with JDS.






Well said BuffaloDave, the guy insults and belittles ppl's opinions if he doesn't agree with them.
airkerma
4/6/12 9:32:58AM

Posted by rush13


Posted by BuffaloDave


Posted by bjj1605


Posted by BuffaloDave


Why is it so shocking that people want to see Hunt over Mir? It's rather easy, with Hunt it will be a slug-fest, whereas Mir would get hit a few times and be done.

Fighters have done less to earn title shots. Under normal circumstances I'd say Hunt needs a win or two more against someone in the top 10, but since there might be a scramble for an opponent for JDS, Hunt's name should be thrown in the mix. Personally I still just want to see Mir fight Cain.


But hey if you have to explain to yourself that it's "fan boy power" thats fine, whatever helps you get through this. If not theres always Xanax.



First of all....

Its your OPINION that Hunt would make it a slug fest and Mir would lose quickly.

I personally think thats a piss poor opinion. In my opinion, Mir would be more exciting and have a MUCH better chance of winning.

Second....

Mir could reasonably be given a shot based off of his accomplishments in the UFC. Hunt can't.

There is no way you can argue, based off of what Hunt has done so far, that he deserves a title shot.

Therefore, the only thing left is fan boy power.




Trying to come at me, saying I have a piss poor opinion for thinking Mir will be lose quickly, well, I think you must be smoking crack to think Mir would be more exciting, since we're giving our OPINIONS. Mir doesn't have the greatest chin, and JDS might just be the best striker in the HW division. Mir was almost put out by Big Nog.

Now, I never said Hunt deserves it, re- read my 2nd paragraph. Believe me I think Mir is definitely more deserving of a title shot. Like I said, I just really want to see the fight with Cain stay as is, to me that's more exciting of a fight than with JDS.






Well said BuffaloDave, the guy insults and belittles ppl's opinions if he doesn't agree with them.

this wouldnt be half as funny had you not done the exact same thing within this very thread.
State_Champ
4/6/12 11:40:54AM
Hmmm....
Image Attachment(s):
Photo Attachment 1
Poor_Franklin
4/6/12 1:55:02PM
lots of folks here, me excluded, have piss poor opinions, but they should not be labeled as such.

my opinions go by a label as well. they are called facts.

bjj1605
4/6/12 4:05:44PM

Posted by Pookie



First - It's also you're opinion that Mir would have a better chance of winning. So you're opinion on the matter doesn't discredit someone else's opinion either, as it's all subjective. Personally, i see Mir having absolutely no path to victory.




Ya but I explicitly stated that it was my opinion. I also only said it in response to someone else stating their opinion as a fact.

If you wanna debate who's got the better shot, I'm all for it. As long as you acknowledge that its a debate and that you're not automatically right.


Posted by rush13

Well said BuffaloDave, the guy insults and belittles ppl's opinions if he doesn't agree with them.



I never insult and belittle people's opinions...

As long as they represent them as such.

I might belittle a POST in which someone presents an opinion as a fact, but thats an issue with procedure....not substance.

I might disagree with someone, but I think most people who know me on this site would tell you that I usually have very calm and well reasoned arguments with people.

What I take issue with is people attacking me or presenting their opinion as if its the only one.
Poor_Franklin
4/6/12 4:38:34PM
FACT: the fun has been sucked out of this thread.
Shawn91111
4/6/12 7:20:29PM
86 posts in this thread and im shocked it hasnt been locked yet.
Pookie
4/7/12 6:40:23AM

Posted by bjj1605

If you wanna debate who's got the better shot, I'm all for it. As long as you acknowledge that its a debate and that you're not automatically right.



No problem.

My take. Junior has shown good enough wrestling to thwart Carwin entirely, and to make Cain feel like he needs to set up his shot's with strikes. His sprawl is very solid. I think he can all agree on that.

My opinion of Mir's wrestling is that it's the weakest part of his Grappling repotoire, and that its largely improbable that Mir succeeds with takedowns. The other route that leads to the ground is a takedown on Junior's part, or Junior following Mir to the ground. While i see this as a more valid possibility, i still think it's improbable based on Junior's performances. He's shown that offensively he likes to stick with his boxing, it's his most confident attribute and it's the area where no one has ever bested him. He's lost on the ground before, but he's never come close to losing on the feet. And a consistent trend among top level fighters is that their first true loss does alot in defining the area's where they're the most confident. While Mir's BJJ is definitely a step above JDS' brown belt, i think it's a hugely uphill battle for him to be able to utilize it. And on the feet i believe Mir is firmly outmatched due to his defensive flaws and Junior's ridiculous ability to create openings, coupled with Junior's tremendous power.

I believe JDS won't shy away from a Firefight on the feet until someone hurts him or bests him on the feet, which hasn't happened yet. So as far as current trends go, i think it's probable that JDS stands with Hunt if they fight. And Hunt's chances of winning a stand-up fight against JDS is better IMO, than Frank's chances of securing a takedown andsnatching a submission in a successive chain. Even if hunt is a faded fighter from his prime, which i dont personally believe(if anything i think he's at his best overall), this being a HW fight allows for a higher chance that a single punch can change the tide of the fight.

So ultimately, 2 punchers going at it in the highest weight class( seemingly within stride of each other's striking skills, but with a descrepancy in overall ability) is a closer match-up to me than a Grappler with a history of bad wrestling trying to enforce a grappling gameplan on the best sprawl & brawler in the division (even if the overall ability of the two fighters is within a closer range than the previous listed match-up.)

It's a styles make match-ups thing, And i see Junior v. Mir as alot like Babalu v. Chuck, except Babalu's wrestling was better.
bigrand826
4/11/12 2:28:30PM

Posted by Pookie


Posted by Bubbles


Posted by bjj1605


Posted by papercut

still a fan regardless. also, his body transformation from lhw to hw is actually very plausible to do naturally in the time he took to do it. here's hoping sample b comes back clean



Give me one other example of a person who's gained that much size in that little time.



Didn't Mir pack on like 30 pounds or so between Lesnar and Carwin?



250 to cutting to 265. so probably between 20-30 pounds but yes. He got big during that span.



I generally agree with this. I am an Overeem fan, but I have always had my suspicions that he didn't go through his transformation 'cleanly'. Still, I did believe that it WAS possible, even if unlikely. I have presented my opinion countless times to hear people simply say some variation of this, "Nope, not possible. Just look at him. You can't gain that much muscle without being on PEDs. It's impossible." While I acknowledge that it is highly unlikely, I absolutely disagree that it is impossible for someone to do. Now that he's failed a test, it is all but certain that HE didn't do it without PEDs, but that still doesn't mean that doing what he did without them is impossible. I gained 30 pounds of muscle in less than 6 months taking nothing but protein. Now I don't pretend that my situation was exactly like Overeem's, but based on what I was able to do in 6 months makes me believe that it is POSSIBLE that someone could do what Overeem did without using PEDs.
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