Not being able to debate because I am white...

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BlueSkiesBurn
7/25/12 10:28:14PM

Posted by george112


Posted by Aether

To be fair, bringing up the fact that you have credentials relating to the field of discussion is perfectly valid information. If someone spends years studying something, their opinions are more than likely going to be better informed than someone who has not spent any time studying the subject, or someone who has a casual interest in it.



I agree to an extent.


But busting out credentials just to make your opinion seem more valid then someone who doesn't is just plain dumb.

Not saying that has gone on in this thread I'm just talking in general


There are some subjects that one doesn't need a degree to debate intelligently. Psychology is one of those subjects.




Which was more the point I was trying to make. Discussing a theory as in-depth as White Privilege isn't something that just anyone can do. The ideas need to be rooted within a sociological framework that lends credence to your theory. This is something that academics spend their entire careers debating. Because of the nature of the this debate, I felt that my degrees in the subject of sociology and human relations were relevant to the debate at hand.

I've spent hours studying race & ethnic relations. I taught a course on race and ethnic relations. In my mind, this is a field that requires a lot more knowledge than some sweeping generalization deduced by someone who read "an article or two" on the subject matter.
prophecy033
7/25/12 10:31:47PM
Whites kill people
Blacks kill people
Mexicans kill people
Asians kill people

Parents kill their children
Children kill their parents
Wives kill husbands
Husbands kill wives
Friends kill friends

The world is a fucked up place
Whites may mass murder more often but I would venture to say Blacks and Mexicans are involved in more gangland murders. The thing is that these mass murders are more high profile than those gangland murders. Just my take
george112
7/25/12 10:32:53PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by george112


Posted by Aether

To be fair, bringing up the fact that you have credentials relating to the field of discussion is perfectly valid information. If someone spends years studying something, their opinions are more than likely going to be better informed than someone who has not spent any time studying the subject, or someone who has a casual interest in it.



I agree to an extent.


But busting out credentials just to make your opinion seem more valid then someone who doesn't is just plain dumb.

Not saying that has gone on in this thread I'm just talking in general


There are some subjects that one doesn't need a degree to debate intelligently. Psychology is one of those subjects.




Which was more the point I was trying to make. Discussing a theory as in-depth as White Privilege isn't something that just anyone can do. The ideas need to be rooted within a sociological framework that lends credence to your theory. This is something that academics spend their entire careers debating. Because of the nature of the this debate, I felt that my degrees in the subject of sociology and human relations were relevant to the debate at hand.

I've spent hours studying race & ethnic relations. I taught a course on race and ethnic relations. In my mind, this is a field that requires a lot more knowledge than some sweeping generalization deduced by someone who read "an article or two" on the subject matter.



Like I said man i wasn't really talking about this thread. I get what your saying and I'm not in a position to argue or debate of anything really on the subject.


My opinion is the same as when I posted it this morning.

Don't argue with a minority. It will get you no where. Save your breath and move on
BlueSkiesBurn
7/25/12 10:42:05PM

Posted by george112

Don't argue with a minority. It will get you no where. Save your breath and move on



My original argument was with a white person

I get what you're saying, I was just being silly.
KingCmb
7/25/12 11:40:32PM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by Adrenaline

Pretentious much?




Pretentious? No. Asserting the fact that I'm not only qualified to speak on the matter at hand, but that I have been trained to do? Yes.

The central theme of this discussion is Sociology. I worked very hard for my credentials in that field and if someone is going to question my knowledge, that's sort of what they are there for, right?

This is a debate about race, sociology, and possible explanations for murderous behavior. If you were trained in this particular field, wouldn't you use it and mention it?

Giving your credentials isn't pretentious. Especially not when you're presenting them in the appropriate setting.




man we must not have good enough opinions cause we don't have the same list of credentials to throw down to discredit others.
thevoodooninja
7/25/12 11:46:32PM
I'm with you warglory, but if you value your friends friendship i would let it go. if she would happen to being something like this up again i would stop her in her tracks just for the simple fact that neither of you will see eye to eye about it and the debate will always turn into an argument.


i live in the ghetto (east siiiiiiiiiiiiiide) that's all the sociology i need

in this day and age with the UNITED STATES having a BLACK PRESIDENT, ain't no one going to tell me the black man is being held down,if they its their own doing. try a little harder. i mean if a white landscaper cant find work he cant blame the mexicans, he needs to look in the mirror and ask himself what can he do differently to make things work out .what i'm saying is this, where i'm from, if me (a white guy) and a black guy is going for the same job, i'm not leaving the place thinking "oh the other guy is black i got this". it doesnt work like that any more.
BlueSkiesBurn
7/25/12 11:47:08PM

Posted by the-king


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by Adrenaline

Pretentious much?




Pretentious? No. Asserting the fact that I'm not only qualified to speak on the matter at hand, but that I have been trained to do? Yes.

The central theme of this discussion is Sociology. I worked very hard for my credentials in that field and if someone is going to question my knowledge, that's sort of what they are there for, right?

This is a debate about race, sociology, and possible explanations for murderous behavior. If you were trained in this particular field, wouldn't you use it and mention it?

Giving your credentials isn't pretentious. Especially not when you're presenting them in the appropriate setting.




man we must not have good enough opinions cause we don't have the same list of credentials to throw down to discredit others.



This is the difference between you and me. I'm not discrediting "others," I am discrediting the claim. The person and the claim are separate issues. I don't make things personal. I can't help it if other people are taking things personally.

I have pretty heated debates and discussions with several people on the PG both on the phone and through private mail. Every, single time we change the subject, move on, agree to disagree, or whatever, but every time we do that, we move on as if nothing happened. There's no personal attacks. We had the debate and left it on the table.

That's how it should be. That's how people should approach these things. It's not personal. It's simply a heated academic debate. I could have moved from this thread to another thread Warglory posted on and I wouldn't have carried anything over. I'd have left this discussion in here. Seems to me that some people can't do the same.
Aether
7/25/12 11:58:27PM

Posted by the-king


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by Adrenaline

Pretentious much?




Pretentious? No. Asserting the fact that I'm not only qualified to speak on the matter at hand, but that I have been trained to do? Yes.

The central theme of this discussion is Sociology. I worked very hard for my credentials in that field and if someone is going to question my knowledge, that's sort of what they are there for, right?

This is a debate about race, sociology, and possible explanations for murderous behavior. If you were trained in this particular field, wouldn't you use it and mention it?

Giving your credentials isn't pretentious. Especially not when you're presenting them in the appropriate setting.




man we must not have good enough opinions cause we don't have the same list of credentials to throw down to discredit others.



I know you're being sarcastic, but yes, that's the basic idea. Someone who studies something for a long time has a "better" (more informed) opinion about that something.

So imagine you're watching fights in a bar and someone is trying to tell you about MMA, but it's obvious he doesn't actually follow the sport very closely, maybe he enjoys it and watches it now and then, but it's clear he can't tell an americana from a kimura. Someone who watches every prelim, every undercard, all of the smaller organizations, etc. has spent way more time learning about this subject, and that person's opinion is almost certainly worth far more than his, even though he really believes his opinion is equally worthwhile.

I'm not saying this is an exact parallel to what's happening in the thread, but it's an example of a very similar situation, with the roles reversed.
KingCmb
7/26/12 12:14:21AM

Posted by Aether


Posted by the-king


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by Adrenaline

Pretentious much?




Pretentious? No. Asserting the fact that I'm not only qualified to speak on the matter at hand, but that I have been trained to do? Yes.

The central theme of this discussion is Sociology. I worked very hard for my credentials in that field and if someone is going to question my knowledge, that's sort of what they are there for, right?

This is a debate about race, sociology, and possible explanations for murderous behavior. If you were trained in this particular field, wouldn't you use it and mention it?

Giving your credentials isn't pretentious. Especially not when you're presenting them in the appropriate setting.




man we must not have good enough opinions cause we don't have the same list of credentials to throw down to discredit others.



I know you're being sarcastic, but yes, that's the basic idea. Someone who studies something for a long time has a "better" (more informed) opinion about that something.

So imagine you're watching fights in a bar and someone is trying to tell you about MMA, but it's obvious he doesn't actually follow the sport very closely, maybe he enjoys it and watches it now and then, but it's clear he can't tell an americana from a kimura. Someone who watches every prelim, every undercard, all of the smaller organizations, etc. has spent way more time learning about this subject, and that person's opinion is almost certainly worth far more than his, even though he really believes his opinion is equally worthwhile.

I'm not saying this is an exact parallel to what's happening in the thread, but it's an example of a very similar situation, with the roles reversed.





im not going to allow this to carry on to another thread either i get its a debate and imo you brought your personal life into it so you have to live with the internet judging you but hey its a debate i get that im just in it.

as for that comparison it would be the same if i whipped out my brown belt and tossed on the bar and said i was right ......its just overkill imo its an argument but cmon im in school to i dont bring it into everything be proud sure but dont claim your opinion as fact or at least more of a fact than others its still an opinion we all deserve one without someone saying they no more you can be pretty damn smart without a published masters thesis to parade around the internet about
Aether
7/26/12 12:44:23AM
It's really strange to me that people use this "everyone deserves to have their own opinion!!!" line. Do you not see how that is hypocrisy? You're trying to deny him his opinion that your opinion is uninformed, so everyone deserves an opinion as long as it doesn't conflict with your opinion is what you really mean when you say that.

You're right, you are entitled to your opinion, but you don't have a right to have it go unchallenged. That's kind of the whole purpose of the free speech thing, people are allowed to say things that you don't like or agree with and you can't deny them that right, even if you find it insulting or rude.
BlueSkiesBurn
7/26/12 12:51:41AM

Posted by the-king

im not going to allow this to carry on to another thread either i get its a debate and imo you brought your personal life into it so you have to live with the internet judging you but hey its a debate i get that im just in it.

as for that comparison it would be the same if i whipped out my brown belt and tossed on the bar and said i was right ......its just overkill imo its an argument but cmon im in school to i dont bring it into everything be proud sure but dont claim your opinion as fact or at least more of a fact than others its still an opinion we all deserve one without someone saying they no more you can be pretty damn smart without a published masters thesis to parade around the internet about



I respect your opinion and encourage everyone to have one, but if I happen to disagree with it, I will challenge it. If someone is claiming something to be fact that I KNOW is not a fact, I am going to speak up on it. Regardless of who that may be.

I'm allowed to tell someone that something is wrong and produce evidence when my expertise is questioned. That's a normal response. As several people have stated. This isn't a "How do you feel about prostitution?" thread.

This is a very specific thread about a very specific field that I studied. Producing evidence of that is normal.
KingCmb
7/26/12 12:53:24AM

Posted by Aether

It's really strange to me that people use this "everyone deserves to have their own opinion!!!" line. Do you not see how that is hypocrisy? You're trying to deny him his opinion that your opinion is uninformed, so everyone deserves an opinion as long as it doesn't conflict with your opinion is what you really mean when you say that.

You're right, you are entitled to your opinion, but you don't have a right to have it go unchallenged. That's kind of the whole purpose of the free speech thing, people are allowed to say things that you don't like or agree with and you can't deny them that right, even if you find it insulting or rude.




i never once asked him not to give his opinion but i find it funny people hide behind the im smarter or more qualified than you what so no matter what you say im right if that's his opinion that hes smarter hes got every right to it...but its still one that is quite rude to toss into peoples faces is all. i seldom find that agree with Mr.blueskysburn but im not saying hes dumb hes well spoken (or typed) and makes decent points but in this case i as well as some others find him a bit self indulgent and elitist but he has every right to be w,e makes him feel he got his point across thats the debate part
Bubbles
7/26/12 12:56:28AM

Posted by FlashyG

I'm not sure how it applies, but for some reason your story made me think of this

Louis CK - Being White


fucking love Louis CK
Bubbles
7/26/12 12:58:00AM
i dont have anything to contribute that hasn't already been said, so I'll post this picture
KingCmb
7/26/12 12:59:49AM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by the-king

im not going to allow this to carry on to another thread either i get its a debate and imo you brought your personal life into it so you have to live with the internet judging you but hey its a debate i get that im just in it.

as for that comparison it would be the same if i whipped out my brown belt and tossed on the bar and said i was right ......its just overkill imo its an argument but cmon im in school to i dont bring it into everything be proud sure but dont claim your opinion as fact or at least more of a fact than others its still an opinion we all deserve one without someone saying they no more you can be pretty damn smart without a published masters thesis to parade around the internet about



I respect your opinion and encourage everyone to have one, but if I happen to disagree with it, I will challenge it. If someone is claiming something to be fact that I KNOW is not a fact, I am going to speak up on it. Regardless of who that may be.

I'm allowed to tell someone that something is wrong and produce evidence when my expertise is questioned. That's a normal response. As several people have stated. This isn't a "How do you feel about prostitution?" thread.

This is a very specific thread about a very specific field that I studied. Producing evidence of that is normal.





i guess im not fighting you on the same basis others are i have no problem with your opinion on the original matter my issue was on weather or not you flaunting degrees and t talking about how your smarter than 90% or w,e of the world because you have two pieces of paper is warranted. however i have a healthy respect for your ability to debate and that's all this is as you stated


and if this was a how do you feel about prostitution thread id be the one with the credentials proving im qualified
Aether
7/26/12 1:02:09AM
Anyway, this really isn't my battle, my main point is simply that his credentials are relevant to the discussion, not just a way for him to brag. If people think he's an asshole, arrogant, or whatever else, that's fine and I don't particularly care.
Bubbles
7/26/12 1:24:44AM

Posted by FlashyG

Do they all make you sad?

#1

#2

My goal isn't to change your opinion or make you sad, I'm just taking advantage of the opportunity to post 3 Louis CK videos in one thread that's not about Louis CK.


I see that and I raise you another
FlashyG
7/26/12 1:27:41AM

Posted by Bubbles


Posted by FlashyG

Do they all make you sad?

#1

#2

My goal isn't to change your opinion or make you sad, I'm just taking advantage of the opportunity to post 3 Louis CK videos in one thread that's not about Louis CK.


I see that and I raise you another



Sorry arguers... I think this is now the Louis CK thread
Bubbles
7/26/12 1:32:56AM
cowcatcher
7/26/12 1:36:32AM
Correction, it's the sexy Louie CK thread now.





BlueSkiesBurn
7/26/12 1:48:05AM

Posted by Aether

Anyway, this really isn't my battle, my main point is simply that his credentials are relevant to the discussion, not just a way for him to brag. If people think he's an asshole, arrogant, or whatever else, that's fine and I don't particularly care.



+1

I know I'm not for everyone. I never claimed to be. I'm not saying that anyone said I did, but I am just putting it out there.
KingCmb
7/26/12 1:49:47AM

Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by Aether

Anyway, this really isn't my battle, my main point is simply that his credentials are relevant to the discussion, not just a way for him to brag. If people think he's an asshole, arrogant, or whatever else, that's fine and I don't particularly care.



+1

I know I'm not for everyone. I never claimed to be. I'm not saying that anyone said I did, but I am just putting it out there.





im afraid this has to be said for me as well

infestructure
7/26/12 3:21:33AM

Posted by the-king


Posted by BlueSkiesBurn


Posted by Aether

Anyway, this really isn't my battle, my main point is simply that his credentials are relevant to the discussion, not just a way for him to brag. If people think he's an asshole, arrogant, or whatever else, that's fine and I don't particularly care.



+1

I know I'm not for everyone. I never claimed to be. I'm not saying that anyone said I did, but I am just putting it out there.





im afraid this has to be said for me as well




I, actually, am for everyone.

All the people like me
warglory
7/26/12 9:02:56AM
I kinda love how this thread has devolved into sexy Louie CK imagery and sociological cock blocking.

I love the Internetz
prozacnation1978
7/26/12 9:45:08AM
I have dated black women got black friends
A lot of black customers. Don't back down just cause they are a minority . That doesn't give them the right to treat white people Hispanics or asians differently are mean. With that saying

I would have never touched that subject that close to home with a minority no less. There are just some subjects you should never debate or discuss
I probably would have walked away.

Racism civil rights welfare are a few topics I would not discuss
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