The UFC's weird rules

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cmill21
9/29/07 8:08:34PM
I had a thought today, why does the UFC allow axe kicks to a downed opponent(to the body) and they don't allow body stomps on the ground? I don't see any difference besides you come around and down instead of down. Maybe i'm off base but I think they are virtually identical.
Rush
9/29/07 9:41:51PM
I don't get it either. You can axe kick a guy in the gut when he's down, but you can't stomp.
cmill21
9/29/07 10:00:42PM
Lol they have alot of contradictory rules, like can you or can't you elbow the top of a guys head? I think they need to take a peek at their rule book and decide, if you can axe kick someone you should be able to do the same thing and stop them. If they don't want head stomp's/kicks on the ground then you can keep that but they need to have some assemblance of reason.
DJDark41
9/29/07 11:07:14PM
Well, I guess an axe kick to the gut is alot better then a stomp to the head. If there is a kick coming down on you into your gut and it hits you, it can't do nearly as much damage as if a guy has his head flat on a mat and a guy puts full force into a stomp flat down onto the side of a guys head or flat onto his face. I'm seriously opposed to stomps in general, as well as soccer kicks, especially all to the head just because of the potential for serious damage, the type of damage that I don't think can be caused by any other sort of strike.
Lay_N_Pray
9/30/07 1:24:23AM
Foot stomps are ok....anything else should not be done, way to dangerous and not that much skill honestly its just trying to flatten your opponents face into the floor. There is nothing scientific about it and it is extremely dangerous
cmill21
9/30/07 4:38:41AM
No I'm talking axe kicks and stomps to the body. By the UFC's rules you can't stop on the ground, but you can axe kick on the ground (to the body). I don't see why you can axe kick and can't stomp in general.
Mastodon2
9/30/07 7:05:24AM
I suppose it's because for 99% of competitors, their axe kick will be sloppy and improperly done, so it wil carry less power than a stomp. However, its still an odd rule, because if someone was in UFC that knew how to do proper axe kicks used it they could actually do more damage with it than a stomp.

Cro Cop is the only guy I've seen in the UFC that knows how to do axe kicks properly, Kongo did on against Cro Cop on the ground and it just looked pathetic.

EDIT:

A properly executed axe kick to a downed opponent will do far more damage than a stamp.
Pitbull09
9/30/07 1:29:24PM
Well stomping does have more of your body weight pressing into the person while axe kicks come from the force of your leg. Your almost leaning backwards for an axe kick which isnt putting your body weight in that concentrated are you hit.

Thats the only reason i think they allow it.
zephead
9/30/07 2:42:05PM
It all boils down to what the Athletic Commissions will allow. The UFC can say they want stomps to a down opponents head and knees to the heads. The Commissions can say no. end of story
Stickan
9/30/07 3:23:34PM

Posted by Mastodon2

EDIT:

A properly executed axe kick to a downed opponent will do far more damage than a stamp.


Are you sure about that? It just feels very very logical that a stomp will generate A LOT more force than an axe kick. If you look at the muscles involved, the motion involved and everything I can't imagine an axe kick doing greater damage than a stomp. If I had to choose between getting an axe kick to the body and a stomp, I'd choose the axe kick all day long.

I'm not that in to thai and kick boxing so I might be wrong. I've never even seen an axe kick KO. All attempts I've seen have been pretty much effectless.
Mastodon2
9/30/07 3:32:11PM
proper Axe kicking

Imagine that, brought down with the heel, into the ribs or solar plexus of a downed opponent. Only the rear tip of the heel connects, making a very localised impact, much more likely to cause real tissue damage. A properly executed axe kick involves hip rotation to pull the leg in, so its not just aobut leg power, the hip torque snaps the leg down generating insane amounts of force.

I can understand you having never seen an axe kick KO, because very few people can do them well, Cro Cop has done one or two good ones, Andy Hug was very good at them. Glaube Feitosa is very quick with them, but he doesnt turn his hip and finish the kick looking side on at his opponent, he just continues to stand square on with them, so his arent very powerful. I must admit, Ive never seen an axe kick KO either, but then they arent often used to target the head, they are more often used to hit the trapezoids that are exposed next to the neck. Getting those hit is incredibly painful and makes fighting on very difficult, as they become stiff and even minimal head movement because agonising, I've pulled my trapezoids before and I spent a whole day lying down, unable to move my head, I can only imagine how bad it must hurt getting hit by a full power axe kick in one of them!

I always thought the best place to use them was when the opponent was on all fours on the ground, where many competitors in pride used a soccer kick to the head an axe kick to the opponents ribs on the far side of their body could have been abosolutely devastating!
MALICE
10/6/07 6:21:40PM
I once attended a demonstration creating maximum force with your body. And they used both techniques. The one thing I would like to point out is, when executing an axe kick, the maximum force will be applied between your midchest and your knees. If you are executing an axe kick to a downed opponent, you will have much less force below the knee. A stomp on the other hand is at its maximum force right at ground level. So if you stomp on a downed opponents head, and it has no give due to the canvas, you will cause much more damage. Use a pumpkin and try it at home. The axe kick = crack. The stomp = pie.
cmill21
10/6/07 6:41:31PM
I'm not talking stomps to the head. The body, and i'm not talking jumping stops just up and down with the knee and hip. I think the axe kick(if used by say andy hug) would be more devastating then a stomp.
MALICE
10/6/07 7:25:06PM
I understand what you were saying. I was trying to use that as an example. As for body blows I would think if you can axe kick to the body, a stomp wouldnt be much more harmful. But I have never been stomped or axe kicked to the head or body, so I guess I have to trust those that do know.
cmill21
10/6/07 7:32:36PM
Watch a HL video of andy hug or if you can find the Cro Cop hunt II you can see how devastating axe kicks can be when properly executed. Hug has Ko'd people with them and i think Cro Cop's would have KO'd most but it was hunt so it didn't effect him lol.
Mastodon2
10/7/07 8:48:16AM
Glaube Feitosa has a very effective axe kick too, his heel comes down like a hammer. It should be noted that how many KOs a kick causes is not a measure of its effectiveness, since Axe Kicks rarely target the head, more often the trapezoids.
Mitchell740
10/7/07 9:38:46AM

Posted by cmill21

Lol they have alot of contradictory rules, like can you or can't you elbow the top of a guys head? I think they need to take a peek at their rule book and decide, if you can axe kick someone you should be able to do the same thing and stop them. If they don't want head stomp's/kicks on the ground then you can keep that but they need to have some assemblance of reason.



To clarify backward elbows ARE legal. The rule is that it can't be in a downward motion from above, so you can't have gravity on your side.
Rush
10/8/07 9:07:01PM

Posted by Mastodon2

I always thought the best place to use them was when the opponent was on all fours on the ground, where many competitors in pride used a soccer kick to the head an axe kick to the opponents ribs on the far side of their body could have been abosolutely devastating!




very true. I used one (axe kick) once to knock a guy out after he went down from taking a front kick of mine.

They are effective because the person on all fours can use their arms to block a soccer kick (or even grab it). Their arms are in a natural position to protect their face (probably their most natural reaction).

If we are talking kicking to the head (of an opponent on all fours) I would go for an axe kick. If we are talking kick to the body, I would go for the soccer kick.
cmill21
10/8/07 9:12:31PM
Don't get me wrong I love axe kicks, and all kicks, i'm just curious as to why things so similar on opposite sides of illegal.
thepunisher
10/9/07 11:14:01AM
GSP used an axe kick to the body against Mayhem
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