I'm posting it... RASHAD EVANS

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Jackelope
8/15/07 3:31:53PM

Posted by cowcatcher


Posted by Jackelope

Oh, and about Tito-

Formerly A class fighter now a B class fighter. If he was still an A class fighter people would see a title contention in his future and he also wouldn't have a problem knocking off the likes of Rashad Evans.

And let's face it- it's been said a number of times, but Ken Shamrock is no Frank Shamrock




i think a more accurate statement would be ken shamrock is not the ken shamrock of old, mostly because i think frank has always been the more talented of the two, hell he was the #1 p4p in the world at one time IMO, and im not sure that ken was(although it could be argued, right richie?)



the old Ken Shamrock did beat Bas a couple of times So you win there haha
LR
8/15/07 4:40:55PM
LOL, Tito beat Silva in UFC 25, and then went on a run against some of the best, but that was why Ortiz was considered an MMA legend. He was dominant back when ground and pound was the game and standing and throwing punches was part of the MMA style. Ju-jitsu wasn't HUGE back then, it was there, but not like it is today where it almost seems like a requirement. So, Tito was an A level fighter for a couple years, but he has definitely dropped off due to age.

Ken is the only one who really EVER gave Bas Rutten a problem besides Funaki and the one bout with Frank. He avenged the Frank loss, but never the Ken losses.

Fun fact about Rutten, he actually sometimes trains Kevin James, so look for James to come into MMA and fight Frank Shamrock.
jocksmall
8/15/07 8:19:10PM

Posted by Jackelope

I'm thinking right now Babalu is his best match up. Babalu is usually an all or nothing fighter who doesn't mind pushing the action. I'd need to see something like that to test Rashad's skillset. Unfortunately Lambert beat Babalu so I'm not sure that match is feasible. I'd also like to see a great BJJ fighter roll on the ground with Rashad.

I wonder about Evans' camp choice, though. I think you're right saying that he's going for the sprawl and brawl, but I'm not sure that's what is best suited for his style. He's got the tough chin, but before I would consider him to be top contention LHW sprawl and brawler he'd have to develop some serious power in his hands. I mean just look at all the top LHW sprawl and brawl guys- their power is light years beyond his. Quinton Jackson and Chuck Liddell both have the power to knock somebody clean out with a grazing fist. I don't see Rashad having that power. And again, just like you said... he does seem like he's too much of a nice guy. I think he lacks the killer instinct.

I think he'd be much better off if he was in a camp more like Militech. Obviously that won't happen considering the people involved, but I really do think he'd be better off in a camp such as that. Somebody who could put his wrestling background to better use.


id love to see renato ko or submit evans. this is the kind of fight the ufc needs to start showing us. dont be scared to let the reality star with the good record fight the gate keeper. babalu is better than his fight against lambert, i believe it was an off night. he isnt in the category with shogun , chuck or even wandy but i think he would be a step up for evans. would even like a tito vs babalu fight i dont really care for rematches especally when the first one was boring
Jackelope
8/15/07 8:41:44PM

id love to see renato ko or submit evans. this is the kind of fight the ufc needs to start showing us. dont be scared to let the reality star with the good record fight the gate keeper. babalu is better than his fight against lambert, i believe it was an off night. he isnt in the category with shogun , chuck or even wandy but i think he would be a step up for evans. would even like a tito vs babalu fight i dont really care for rematches especally when the first one was boring


Yeah, Babalu has gotten a rough deal being in that slot that he is. He's a world class competitor, no doubt, but he's just a step below the top ranked guys. Maybe even half a step. Chuck's destruction definitely didn't do much to help him being ranked up there.

Just take a look at his stats on Sherdog, though. He's beat some of the best of the best and even those he didn't beat it's impressive enough to get in the ring/octagon with them.

I'm starting the save Babalu fund!
hippysmacker
8/15/07 11:48:08PM

Posted by LR

LOL, Tito beat Silva in UFC 25, and then went on a run against some of the best, but that was why Ortiz was considered an MMA legend. He was dominant back when ground and pound was the game and standing and throwing punches was part of the MMA style. Ju-jitsu wasn't HUGE back then, it was there, but not like it is today where it almost seems like a requirement. So, Tito was an A level fighter for a couple years, but he has definitely dropped off due to age.

Ken is the only one who really EVER gave Bas Rutten a problem besides Funaki and the one bout with Frank. He avenged the Frank loss, but never the Ken losses.

Fun fact about Rutten, he actually sometimes trains Kevin James, so look for James to come into MMA and fight Frank Shamrock.




Posted by AchillesHeel

Well, I happen to like Evans, although I don't really disagree with what you wrote.

He is a little tentative, yes. I think he's just unaccustomed to hitting people. His wins over Lambert and Salmon were impressive, though, and showed that he's improving. I noticed in his win over Lambert that he was kind of reluctant to keep hitting him from the mount, even though it was clear Lambert was in deep doo-doo, like he expected the ref to end it sooner than he did. And during the post-fight interview, he seemed concerned that he'd hurt Salmon, who was still on his back asking if anyone got the license plate on the truck that hit him.

As you point out, Evans doesn't go for takedowns much. He seems to be molding himself into a "sprawl & brawl" fighter, which I don't see anything wrong with (other than the hesitancy in his striking, which I imagine he'll overcome with training and experience).

I agree that Tito had that fight won. However, Rashad clearly had gained some confidence and took the 3rd round away from Tito. I wouldn't be shocked to see him come into their rematch with a tiger in his tank.

I thought about putting him in my Top 10, but decided not to. He's probably Top 15, and almost certainly Top 20. That's nothing to sneeze at, though. I think he'd be an instant title-contender in the WEC or IFL.

In the UFC, he's a ways away from being among the elite. Right now, Liddell, Shogun, Rampage, and Henderson would murder him. But again, that's nothing to be ashamed of. After his rematch with Ortiz - win or lose - I'd like to see him take on another "2nd Tier" opponent, somebody like Forrest Griffin, Keith Jardine, or Renato Sobral.




Posted by fullerene

Many fighters who you see for the first time in the UFC have as many fights as Rashad has now. He had 5 pro fights and the best tMMA raining that East Lansing, MI could provide (which isn't much) when he was thrown on national TV fighting more experienced guys. Even Dana White admits he wasn't expected to win, especially as a HW. But he beat teh favorite (Mike Whitehead), a fringe contender in the current 205 pound class (Keith Jardine) and a guy who could easily fight at super HW (Brad Imes). Sure an inexperienced wrestler didn't dominate those fights, but if he wasn't talented he would have been dominated himself.

In most cases a guy like Rashad would have been handed a couple of convincing losses already and he'd be fighting on the undercards or building his resume up at WEC or KOTC. The only thing is he keeps winning. That doesn't mean he's experienced in MMA fights or that he's spent a lot of time in top notch training camps. He hasn't. Makes me think that in a couple of years--when he does have the experience and training that most of the guys he's fighting have--he's going to be pretty damn good.



All very good posts with good points. Most of it's been said, but I think Tito is#9 and Rashad #10 at LHVY right now. I just think that Rashad is on the way up and Tito is on the way down, but both are at least B to B+ fighters IMo currently
Jackelope
8/16/07 3:21:34AM

Posted by hippysmacker

All very good posts with good points. Most of it's been said, but I think Tito is#9 and Rashad #10 at LHVY right now. I just think that Rashad is on the way up and Tito is on the way down, but both are at least B to B+ fighters IMo currently



Damn, I'm really surprised you would put Rashad up to #10. Not as an insult or anything, but I just always felt like you had a good feel for MMA judging by the things I've seen you post. Maybe you'll end up being right, though *shrug*

More power to the guy if he continues to develop and actually starts getting ballsy.. who knows, maybe once that perfect record is gone he'll throw it all to the wind and stop being afraid to bomb

hippysmacker
8/16/07 4:42:01AM

Posted by Jackelope


Posted by hippysmacker

All very good posts with good points. Most of it's been said, but I think Tito is#9 and Rashad #10 at LHVY right now. I just think that Rashad is on the way up and Tito is on the way down, but both are at least B to B+ fighters IMo currently



Damn, I'm really surprised you would put Rashad up to #10. Not as an insult or anything, but I just always felt like you had a good feel for MMA judging by the things I've seen you post. Maybe you'll end up being right, though *shrug*

More power to the guy if he continues to develop and actually starts getting ballsy.. who knows, maybe once that perfect record is gone he'll throw it all to the wind and stop being afraid to bomb




I f you read all the posts I quoted( It's a long list I admit to asking a lot from you ) you'll see i agree with some of your points. Still, consider possible alternatives.

Babalu- I really like him as a fighter, but his reckless approach when hurt his last 2 fights worries me for his future. When he got the title shot, I beleive he thought he was going to win. Sometimes when you reach a peak and fall off it's hard to summon the will to get back to the top. I hope this isn't the case, but I do fear it. If he looks tentaive or reckless in his next fight I don't think he'll ever make it back near the top

Nakamura- has put up a good fight against some good guys( Wandy Lil nOg, Shogun, and against much larger Barnett) but when your 2 most impressive victories are against Kondo( who is maybe top 20 , but really small and should fight at 185 IMO) and a past his prime Igor I see no justification for putting him in the top 10

Jardine- just got Koed brutally and his most impressive victory is against another top 15 guy Forrest

Lambert- Beat up Babalu, but was dominated by Rashad

Gouvea- If he beats Lambert impressively he may take the loser of Tito/Rashad 2 in my book. He still has never beat even a top 20 LHVY. His best performance is against Jardine, which I would have called a draw, even though he got the loss.

Matushenko- Is in the IFl fighting nobody special and couldn't finish a guy with only 6 fights last time out.

So I see no other alternatives presently. the bets thing is this will all shake out soon.
LR
8/16/07 9:49:44AM

Posted by hippysmacker


Posted by Jackelope


Posted by hippysmacker

All very good posts with good points. Most of it's been said, but I think Tito is#9 and Rashad #10 at LHVY right now. I just think that Rashad is on the way up and Tito is on the way down, but both are at least B to B+ fighters IMo currently



Damn, I'm really surprised you would put Rashad up to #10. Not as an insult or anything, but I just always felt like you had a good feel for MMA judging by the things I've seen you post. Maybe you'll end up being right, though *shrug*

More power to the guy if he continues to develop and actually starts getting ballsy.. who knows, maybe once that perfect record is gone he'll throw it all to the wind and stop being afraid to bomb




I f you read all the posts I quoted( It's a long list I admit to asking a lot from you ) you'll see i agree with some of your points. Still, consider possible alternatives.

Babalu- I really like him as a fighter, but his reckless approach when hurt his last 2 fights worries me for his future. When he got the title shot, I beleive he thought he was going to win. Sometimes when you reach a peak and fall off it's hard to summon the will to get back to the top. I hope this isn't the case, but I do fear it. If he looks tentaive or reckless in his next fight I don't think he'll ever make it back near the top

Nakamura- has put up a good fight against some good guys( Wandy Lil nOg, Shogun, and against much larger Barnett) but when your 2 most impressive victories are against Kondo( who is maybe top 20 , but really small and should fight at 185 IMO) and a past his prime Igor I see no justification for putting him in the top 10

Jardine- just got Koed brutally and his most impressive victory is against another top 15 guy Forrest

Lambert- Beat up Babalu, but was dominated by Rashad

Gouvea- If he beats Lambert impressively he may take the loser of Tito/Rashad 2 in my book. He still has never beat even a top 20 LHVY. His best performance is against Jardine, which I would have called a draw, even though he got the loss.

Matushenko- Is in the IFl fighting nobody special and couldn't finish a guy with only 6 fights last time out.

So I see no other alternatives presently. the bets thing is this will all shake out soon.



Yeah, I like these points. Tito is definitely on the way down, but he always has the possibility of coming out strong and beating someone that you normally might not think he can beat. But Babalu could go back on a run if he can learn to not get blasted by the big time strikers, even though he has had some huge fights against the top HWs like Fedor.
nubby
8/16/07 12:31:36PM
I think Tito could just as easily go on a run if they didn't give him a strong wrestler to go up against. Personally I think the rematch can wait. I would rather see Tito go up against pretty much anyone other than Rashad. In my eyes Rashad is just a crappier version of Tito.

Jackelope
8/16/07 2:32:24PM

Posted by hippysmacker


I f you read all the posts I quoted( It's a long list I admit to asking a lot from you ) you'll see i agree with some of your points. Still, consider possible alternatives.

Babalu- I really like him as a fighter, but his reckless approach when hurt his last 2 fights worries me for his future. When he got the title shot, I beleive he thought he was going to win. Sometimes when you reach a peak and fall off it's hard to summon the will to get back to the top. I hope this isn't the case, but I do fear it. If he looks tentaive or reckless in his next fight I don't think he'll ever make it back near the top

Nakamura- has put up a good fight against some good guys( Wandy Lil nOg, Shogun, and against much larger Barnett) but when your 2 most impressive victories are against Kondo( who is maybe top 20 , but really small and should fight at 185 IMO) and a past his prime Igor I see no justification for putting him in the top 10

Jardine- just got Koed brutally and his most impressive victory is against another top 15 guy Forrest

Lambert- Beat up Babalu, but was dominated by Rashad

Gouvea- If he beats Lambert impressively he may take the loser of Tito/Rashad 2 in my book. He still has never beat even a top 20 LHVY. His best performance is against Jardine, which I would have called a draw, even though he got the loss.

Matushenko- Is in the IFl fighting nobody special and couldn't finish a guy with only 6 fights last time out.

So I see no other alternatives presently. the bets thing is this will all shake out soon.



Good points, for sure. I guess I never really took the time to actually look at the numbers of the guys who are around that #8-15 spot. So I agree that he's somewhere around 10, as much as I hate to. I just don't see him getting above 5

Personally, I keep Babalu above him just simply based on tougher opponents faced and experience in the Octagon, even though he has had a rough go of it as of late.
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