The state of the UFC's Light-Heavyweight Division

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AchillesHeel
8/22/07 12:42:26PM
What a difference a year makes.

Not too long ago, the UFC’s 205-lb division looked a bit barren. The champ was dominant – almost too dominant – with one or two weak contenders to think about. Then there was a chasm between the few good fighters and the up-and-comers. Desperate for a serious contender, fans were ready to anoint promising TUF guys like Michael Bisping and Keith Jardine as legit contenders.

Today, the question is whether the champ will be able to defend his belt once, and those TUF guys have a real mountain to climb.



The Meanest of the Mean, the Baddest of the Bad:

The top five guys could be ranked "#1a, #1b, #1c, #1d, and #1e", but I won’t cop-out like that.

1. Quinton "Rampage" Jackson (27-6, 13 wins by TKO, 7 by Submission): He might have the most sheer physical power in the division, his skills are well-rounded, and he's excellent at switching gears from boxing to Muay Thai to wrestling. He only turned 29 about eight weeks ago, and after a little bit of a lull, he looks poised to improve upon his successes of the past. But, boy, does he have his work cut out for him...

2. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua (16-2, 13 wins by TKO, 1 by Submission): Right now he's the presumptive favorite to win the belt as soon as he's given a shot. His "coming out party" at Pride's Total Elimination 2005 was a 1st-round bludgeoning of... Quinton Jackson. Overall, he was 12-1 in Pride, his only loss being an injury to Heavyweight wrestler Mark Coleman. His famous stomps and soccer kicks will be taken away from him in the Octagon, but I doubt it'll matter much. Oh, and he's still only 25 years old.

3. Dan Henderson (22-5, 10 wins by TKO, 1 by Submission): He is certainly a threat to Rampage. His win over Wanderlei Silva at Pride 33 was no fluke, and his loss to Misaki a year ago might have been. He's never lost by (T)KO and his only two Submission losses were to the Nogueira brothers. People talk about his wrestling and his right hand, although it was his left that ended Silva's night in February.

4. Chuck Liddell (20-4, 13 wins by TKO, 1 by Submission): He coasted for a while on ready-to-eat meals of over-matched grapplers. Those days are over, but fans of The Iceman shouldn't feel discouraged. He can still knock out a bull, and his 4-round dismantling of Jeremy Horn proved that he can box it out when he needs to. He'll be 38 years old before he gets another title shot, and no one knows when he'll decide to become a full-time father, but right now he's still in this thing.

5. Wanderlei Silva (31-7-1, 21 wins by TKO, 4 by Submission): Like Liddell, he's chewing on a tough defeat and the loss of his title belt. Also like Liddell, he was often criticized for having a soft reign as champion (in his case, it was Pride FC's inability to put on title fights more than once or twice a year). But, like Liddell, Silva is still a monster. As Dana White pointed out, Silva is 2-0 against Rampage Jackson, and only turned 31 last month.
AchillesHeel
8/22/07 12:43:06PM
Standing on the Verge of Gettin’ it On:

6. Tito Ortiz (15-5-1, 8 TKOs, 2 Submissions): At only 32 years old, some people think the former champ is done. I think that's premature, but he appeared to have lost his vaunted cardio-fitness in his last two "real" fights, when he run out of steam in the 3rd round against Griffin and Evans. His virtual exhibition fights with Ken Shamrock probably retarded his progress too, and his dumb fence-grabbing cost him a win against Evans. He pretty much has to win his next fight, decisively.

7. Ryoto Machida (10-0, 3 TKOs, 1 Submission): Another guy whose progress into the elite is up in the air. Before coming into the UFC, he was famous for his wins over Rich Franklin and BJ Penn, and was regarded as a potential contender for a belt. Now, with two Decision wins against 3rd-tier UFC guys, people wonder if he's reached his ceiling.

8. Keith Jardine (12-3-1, 6 TKOs, 2 Submissions): His loss to Houston Alexander was shocking and with Alexander's guns, it's hard to call it a fluke. Still, I think Jardine is better than that, and should continue to improve. He's been given a chance at redemption, with a fight against Chuck Liddell. If he takes Liddell to a Decision, or rocks him with some punches, he can improve his stock even with a loss.

9. Forrest Griffin (14-4, 3 TKOs, 6 Submission): His losses to Ortiz and Jardine were painful, to be sure and, like Jardine, he's been given a massive opportunity. He'll be judged by his performance against Shogun, regardless of the outcome. A hard-fought loss could do more for him than his par-for-the-course win over Hector Ramirez.

10. Kazuhiro Nakamura (11-6, 2 TKOs, 2 Submissions): So far, he's lost to every Top 10 fighter he's met in battle. Still, his losses were to the same Chute Boxe guys who defeated Rampage Jackson, Wandy and Shogun, to Dan Henderson, to Antonio Rogerio Nogueira, and to 250-lb submission wrestler Josh Barnett. A win over Machida could put into a match against another top-10 fighter, with an eye toward a title shot down the road.
AchillesHeel
8/22/07 12:44:11PM
The Not-Ready-For-Primetime Players:

11. Rashad Evans (10-0-1, 3 TKOs, 2 Submission): His Draw against Ortiz should have been his first loss. Nevertheless, his progression from his days on TUF2 has been meteoric, and I could see improvement during his fight with Tito (although some of that was due to Tito gassing out in the 3rd round). A lot depends upon his mental game - he's clearly not comfortable yet with hitting people - but he's developing into a good "sprawl n' brawl" fighter.

12. Jason Lambert (23-6, 12 TKOs, 7 Submissions): He got bludgeoned by Evans, then bounced right back and beat up Renato Sobral. He was rumored to be matched against Machida at UFC 70, but was unable to due to injury. A win over submission fighter Wilson Gouveia could make him a threat to the Top 10.

13. Renato "Babalu" Sobral (27-7, 2 TKOs, 14 Submissions): Sobral's future in the UFC is in doubt after poor showings in his last two fights. I wouldn't hold it against him if he decided to stretch his legs and take some matches elsewhere, to get his head back on straight. He would be an instant contender in the WEC, the IFL, or just about anywhere besides the UFC. Still, I don't think he's done and if he can get back on the rails, he can give anybody a fight.

14. Michael Bisping (13-0, 9 TKOs, 4 Submission): 13 fights in just over 3 years; 13 finished opponents. He needs to defeat a Top-20 opponent to cement his position, but for now he's in my Top 15. I'm looking forward to his matchup with Matt Hamill, but a loss would hurt Bisping's standing a lot, while another win over a 3rd-tier opponent might not prove anything more.

15 (tie). Wilson Gouveia (9-4, 3 TKOs, 5 Submissions): Since an impressive performance in his loss to Keith Jardine - his UFC debut, incidentally - he's finished 3 fights in a row, against 3rd-tier fighters. He's another guy who needs to fight someone better, and Lambert is an ideal matchup.

15 (tie). Houston Alexander (7-1, 4 TKOs, 1 Submission): It's hard to put a guy in the Top 15 after only one fight but, "Holy Moly, Batman..!" His match against Alessio Sakara is obviously a step down from Jardine, but I actually think it's a good opportunity for him, to fight someone he "should" beat. Another decisive win could put him in line for a match with someone in the Top 15.
cowcatcher
8/22/07 12:57:03PM
what could i possibly add, great post, and analysis
peachfuzzz1305
8/22/07 12:58:06PM
WOW DUDE

U Put Rampage before Shogun and Shogun already wooped him up

and i would put Nakamura 6TH in front of Tito
EddieBowers
8/22/07 1:07:43PM
Again WOW!!.. This is good, only thing a do not agree with is Forrest being as low as he is. I understand the devistating KO by Jardine... but look at how long he stood with Tito, and you have Tito up there. I think Forrest over Jardine personally. The rest... SPOT ON.
AchillesHeel
8/22/07 1:21:43PM
Thanks for the positive replies!


Posted by peachfuzzz1305

U Put Rampage before Shogun and Shogun already wooped him up


True. However, there are a couple of things involved in my thinking here. First, recent performance is a factor - Rampage just earned the belt, and Shogun last defeated Alistair Overeem. Second, Shogun might have some adjustments to make, and Pride fighters have fared variously when entering the Octagon for the first time (or even for the 2nd time, as in Cro Cop's case). We don't really know how he'll react. Finally, I think a rematch between them could go differently. Rampage suffered a rib injury that totally took the fight out of him against Shogun. It was a legitimate victory, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't something you could say is likely happen the same way again.

Like I say, the top five guys could be ranked "1a" through "1e."


Posted by peachfuzzz1305

and i would put Nakamura 6TH in front of Tito


Ehhhh... After their upcoming matchups, I might agree with you. Nakamura has never impressed me, despite his success. He's only defeated a few guys that I would rank Top 20 right now, and he's only finished 4 guys in 11 victories. If Ortiz loses his next fight, he could tumble 4 or 5 places on my list.


Posted by EddieBowers

[...]only thing a do not agree with is Forrest being as low as he is. I understand the devistating KO by Jardine... but look at how long he stood with Tito, and you have Tito up there. I think Forrest over Jardine personally. The rest... SPOT ON.


I almost rated these two in a tie, but I thought that'd be lame, so I decided to go ahead and slide a piece of paper between them. Jardine came out on top because, like Nakamura, I'm not sure about Griffin's ability to finish guys.
peachfuzzz1305
8/22/07 1:27:04PM

Posted by AchillesHeel

Thanks for the positive replies!


Posted by peachfuzzz1305

U Put Rampage before Shogun and Shogun already wooped him up


True. However, there are a couple of things involved in my thinking here. First, recent performance is a factor - Rampage just earned the belt, and Shogun last defeated Alistair Overeem. Second, Shogun might have some adjustments to make, and Pride fighters have fared variously when entering the Octagon for the first time (or even for the 2nd time, as in Cro Cop's case). We don't really know how he'll react. Finally, I think a rematch between them could go differently. Rampage suffered a rib injury that totally took the fight out of him against Shogun. It was a legitimate victory, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't something you could say is likely happen the same way again.

Like I say, the top five guys could be ranked "1a" through "1e."

Yeah but I still say Rampage is just holdin the belt for Shogun


Posted by peachfuzzz1305

and i would put Nakamura 6TH in front of Tito


Ehhhh... After their upcoming matchups, I might agree with you. Nakamura has never impressed me, despite his success. He's only defeated a few guys that I would rank Top 20 right now, and he's only finished 4 guys in 11 victories. If Ortiz loses his next fight, he could tumble 4 or 5 places on my list.

Yeah but he went the distance with Shogun so

and I think he takes Lyoto


Posted by EddieBowers

[...]only thing a do not agree with is Forrest being as low as he is. I understand the devistating KO by Jardine... but look at how long he stood with Tito, and you have Tito up there. I think Forrest over Jardine personally. The rest... SPOT ON.


I almost rated these two in a tie, but I thought that'd be lame, so I decided to go ahead and slide a piece of paper between them. Jardine came out on top because, like Nakamura, I'm not sure about Griffin's ability to finish guys.

AchillesHeel
8/22/07 2:00:06PM

Posted by peachfuzzz1305

Yeah but I still say Rampage is just holdin the belt for Shogun


A lot of people agree with you, and of course Rampage has to fight Hendo first.


Posted by peachfuzzz1305

Yeah but he went the distance with Shogun so

and I think he takes Lyoto


He might, although I'm not sure what a Decision victory does for either Machida or Nakamura. I could see the UFC's decision-makers knocking both of these guys down the ladder if this fight isn't a rock 'em-sock 'em affair, much like they did to Werdum and Arlovski.
AchillesHeel
8/22/07 2:18:04PM

Posted by AchillesHeel

6. Tito Ortiz (15-5-1, 8 TKOs, 2 Submissions): At only 32 years old, some people think the former champ is done. I think that's premature, but he appeared to have lost his vaunted cardio-fitness in his last two "real" fights, when he run out of steam in the 3rd round against Griffin and Evans. His virtual exhibition fights with Ken Shamrock probably retarded his progress too, and his dumb fence-grabbing cost him a win against Evans. He pretty much has to win his next fight, decisively.


I just realized that I made a boo-boo here. Tito's 2nd loss to Liddell was actually after his fight with Griffin. In the title fight, Ortiz actually looked pretty good into the 3rd round, when he was (T)KO'd in the 4th minute. Why he upped his game against Chuck can only be speculated upon, but I thought he looked better in that fight than he did against Rashad Evans.

Tito's progression may have a lot to do with his hunger to win. It's possible that he considers himself among the elite, and takes fights against lower-tier opponents too lightly. Some people even wonder if his relationship with Jenna Jameson might be making too relaxed.
DCRage
8/22/07 2:22:32PM
The signings of big-names and success of TUF have shown that UFC can really make a division something else if they really want to. This now has to be the premier division in UFC, there are many guys there capable of being Champion at any given time. Perhaps UFC should emphasize LHW over Heavyweights right now, that's where a lot of the drawing power (excluding Cro Cop) is.
nubby
8/22/07 2:30:18PM

Posted by AchillesHeel


Posted by AchillesHeel

6. Tito Ortiz (15-5-1, 8 TKOs, 2 Submissions): At only 32 years old, some people think the former champ is done. I think that's premature, but he appeared to have lost his vaunted cardio-fitness in his last two "real" fights, when he run out of steam in the 3rd round against Griffin and Evans. His virtual exhibition fights with Ken Shamrock probably retarded his progress too, and his dumb fence-grabbing cost him a win against Evans. He pretty much has to win his next fight, decisively.


I just realized that I made a boo-boo here. Tito's 2nd loss to Liddell was actually after his fight with Griffin. In the title fight, Ortiz actually looked pretty good into the 3rd round, when he was (T)KO'd in the 4th minute. Why he upped his game against Chuck can only be speculated upon, but I thought he looked better in that fight than he did against Rashad Evans.

Tito's progression may have a lot to do with his hunger to win. It's possible that he considers himself among the elite, and takes fights against lower-tier opponents too lightly. Some people even wonder if his relationship with Jenna Jameson might be making too relaxed.



Injuries. I think Tito's major problem hasn't a thing to do with drive but rather his inability to stay healthy up into the fight. Against Rashad Tito was by far the agressor even after the half way mark when he mentioned his back became hurt. I agree with where you put him on the list.
cowcatcher
8/22/07 2:43:58PM

Posted by nubby

I agree with where you put him on the list.



no lying here nubby, i know hes at #1 for you
nubby
8/22/07 3:26:19PM
HAHA! He's my favorite but I know he's not number 1 until he earns it. That's why I can't wait until he fights Shogun. If he can pull out a win against Shogun and Silva people will be unable to deny his skills. That's why I love these Pride LHW's... no sprawl. Lets just forget about Henderson.
KissMyBallz
8/22/07 3:43:47PM
I wouldnt forget about Henderson but I'll make the argument again that Rampage beat Matt Lindland. You can argue all day that LIndland shouldve won that fight, but the fact is LIndland is a Grecco Roman Olympic Silver medalist and Rampage still slammed his ass multiple times in that fight and got out of a really nasty choke attempt by LIndland.

He shouldnt have much of a problem with a smaller Hendo.
EddieBowers
8/22/07 4:31:44PM

Posted by EddieBowers

[...]only thing a do not agree with is Forrest being as low as he is. I understand the devistating KO by Jardine... but look at how long he stood with Tito, and you have Tito up there. I think Forrest over Jardine personally. The rest... SPOT ON.


I almost rated these two in a tie, but I thought that'd be lame, so I decided to go ahead and slide a piece of paper between them. Jardine came out on top because, like Nakamura, I'm not sure about Griffin's ability to finish guys.


I understand.. but if you did make them tie I would request that you put Forrest first. J/K.
nubby
8/22/07 5:18:41PM

Posted by KissMyBallz

I wouldnt forget about Henderson but I'll make the argument again that Rampage beat Matt Lindland. You can argue all day that LIndland shouldve won that fight, but the fact is LIndland is a Grecco Roman Olympic Silver medalist and Rampage still slammed his ass multiple times in that fight and got out of a really nasty choke attempt by LIndland.

He shouldnt have much of a problem with a smaller Hendo.



Um, perhaps you missed the context of my post but I was referring to Tito Ortiz and his chances against pride fighters coming over to the UFC with less than stellar sprawls. Page had absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying.

Also, I'm tired of hearing about Lindlands silver medal in the Olympics. The dude competed at 150-170 pound weight class, that's a far cry from what he competes at now and especially from his fights with Fedor and Page.
JWils
8/22/07 10:45:51PM
Great post.....

All I've got to say is good luck to anyone trying to defend a title in this division more than once..... very, very deep with great fighters.
SicJits
8/23/07 6:11:32PM
if shogun ko'd rampage in round 1 how is rampage listed above shogun? more fights? ufc title? because is doesn't matter if he has the belt shogun whoooooped rampage
AchillesHeel
10/1/07 11:26:35AM
My new UFC Top 15 at 205 lbs:

1. Quinton "Rampage" Jackson
2. Dan Henderson (+1)
3. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua (-1)
4. Chuck Liddell
5. Wanderlei Silva

6. Tito Ortiz
7. Forrest Griffin (+2)
8. Keith Jardine
9. Lyoto machida (-2)
10. Rashad Evans (+1)

11. Kazuhiro Nakamura (-1)
12. Jason Lambert
13. Houston Alexander (+2)
14. Michael Bisping
15. Matt Hamill (new)

Dropped off the list: Renato "Babalu" Sobral, Wilson Gouveia
nubby
10/1/07 11:31:25AM
It's pretty close to what I think however I don't know where to put Liddell or Silva. Silva has yet to compete and Liddell lost a decision to Jardine who is ranked 8th? Shouldn't that drop one and raise the other?
AchillesHeel
10/1/07 11:39:28AM

Posted by nubby

It's pretty close to what I think however I don't know where to put Liddell or Silva. Silva has yet to compete[...]


Wanderlei is in the same boat as Fedor. I'm giving him a lot of credit for fights that are almost a year past. Soon, I'll stop doing that and he'll drop like a stone.


Posted by nubby

and Liddell lost a decision to Jardine who is ranked 8th? Shouldn't that drop one and raise the other?


Actually, it sort of did. Chuck, Wandy, and Tito sort of held their ground, for various reasons. All three are kind of "on the bubble" for me, and I'm reserving judgment until their next fight.

#6-10 are where the most activity took place. Even though Machida won, he didn't impress me, certainly not as much as Griffin and Jardine did. Evans moved up by virtue of Nakamura's performance (I overrated Nakamura before anyway - he's never once impressed me - so this is sort of a "market correction").
AchillesHeel
10/1/07 12:51:35PM
On upcoming fights...

Bisping-Hamill II and Ortiz-Evans II. Meh. I understand people's frustration with how things went, but I'm not a big fan of immediate rematches. I'd prefer to see these guys get another fight or two first. Evans and Hamill obviously have the most to gain from winning a rematch, but both guys could score just as many "points" with a match against somebody like Lambert or Gouveia.

Dana White says Liddell-Silva is dead in the water, but I still wouldn't mind seeing these guys square off. I'm not sure why White's given up on it now that it seems the most possible. Does he think people have given up on both these fighters? Wandy is currently penciled in for UFC 79 in December, but no opponent has been named.

Wilson Gouveia and Jason Lambert were supposed to fight at UFC 76, but Gouveia dropped out due to an injury. This is still a good matchup for both guys, imo, although I don't know how long Wilson will be out and Lambert shouldn't have to sit around waiting for him. With Houston Alexander scoring a quick win over Sakara, Alexander-Lambert seems like a natural matchup.

Stephan Bonnar is taking on Eric Schafer at UFC 77 later this month. Bonnar has joined ExtremeCouture and has been training with former friendly rival Forrest Griffin. Bonnar had a rough stretch, but I always liked him and would love to see him get back on the horse that threw him. I didn't see his win over Mike Nickels, but 2-minute Submission win sounds like the first step on the road back to me. With another win or two, I could see Bonnar cracking the Top 15.

Is it too soon for a Forrest Griffin-Keith Jardine rematch? It feels like it to me. I'd rather see these two against Evans and Ortiz, respectively - then maybe stage the rematches - but Rashad and Tito are already scheduled for UFC 78 in November.

I'd love to see Dan Henderson go back to 185, but if he stays at 205, I wouldn't mind seeing him take on someone like Jason Lambert or Houston Alexander. Make those guys step up and show what they've got. A "quality loss" to Henderson could be worth something in the eyes of Dana White and Joe Silva.

Shogun is out for a while. Gouveia is out for a while. I think Nakamura is appealing his drugs test (no loss, imho). Rampage is evidently being given the rest of the year off, until someone grabs the #1 Contender reigns.

And somewhere out there is a guy by the name of Ricardo Arona...
TNunley
10/1/07 1:08:23PM

Posted by AchillesHeel

My new UFC Top 15 at 205 lbs:

1. Quinton "Rampage" Jackson
2. Dan Henderson (+1)
3. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua (-1)
4. Chuck Liddell
5. Wanderlei Silva

6. Tito Ortiz
7. Forrest Griffin (+2)
8. Keith Jardine
9. Lyoto machida (-2)
10. Rashad Evans (+1)

11. Kazuhiro Nakamura (-1)
12. Jason Lambert
13. Houston Alexander (+2)
14. Michael Bisping
15. Matt Hamill (new)

Dropped off the list: Renato "Babalu" Sobral, Wilson Gouveia



I know this is your ranking list, but I have a few questions.... Can you elaborate as to why you have Shogun rated #3? I know he was a force in Pride, but he is going to have to come up with a whole new game plan for the UFC... his bread and butter game isn't allowed where he's fighting right now.

Also... I'm a big Chuck Liddell fan... but could you explain why you have him rated #4? He's a great fighter, and Jardine didn't exactly "dominate" him, but he's coming off 2 straight losses... As well as with Wanderlei, he is coming off 2 straight losses...

I like Tito, and I could definitely see him making his road to the title if he fixes a few aspects of his training/fighting... but could you explain why you have him ranked above Jardine? I know Tito beat Griffin, but so did Jardine... and Jardine took out the guy who Tito could never seem to get past...

Before this gets too long... what about Machida? I know he hasn't been extremely tested (even though he's beaten some big name guys in different org's), but just coming off a win why did he drop 2 places?

Just curious
AchillesHeel
10/1/07 2:38:17PM

Posted by TNunley

Can you elaborate as to why you have Shogun rated #3? I know he was a force in Pride, but he is going to have to come up with a whole new game plan for the UFC... his bread and butter game isn't allowed where he's fighting right now.


It's true that he made effective use of stomps and soccer kicks in the Pride ring, but I think any decent pro fighter uses whatever is available to him. In this match, he was using some Tito-style elbows from the guard, for instance. It's possible that he simply won't adjust to the UFC, but I think the differences between the ring and the cage are too often overstated.

I don't think Shogun needs a new game plan, per se, but I do think he needs to refocus and acknowledge to himself that the UFC is the big leagues. I think Shogun severely underestimated Forrest Griffin, who is the 3rd-best fighter Shogun has ever faced, imho.

However, the fight against Griffin was anomalous for Shogun in one important way: He gassed out after the 1st round. Under Pride rules, that's not even one round. He went 20 minutes (3 rounds) with Nakamura and with "Little Nog", winning both Decisions under a scoring system that emphasizes late-game action more than the UFC's does, and a few of hos 1st-rnd TKOs went longer than 5 minutes.

Evidently, it will be a while before his next fight, but I think this will stand out as an unusually bad performance when his career is finished.


Posted by TNunley

Also... I'm a big Chuck Liddell fan... but could you explain why you have him rated #4? He's a great fighter, and Jardine didn't exactly "dominate" him, but he's coming off 2 straight losses... As well as with Wanderlei, he is coming off 2 straight losses...

I like Tito, and I could definitely see him making his road to the title if he fixes a few aspects of his training/fighting... but could you explain why you have him ranked above Jardine? I know Tito beat Griffin, but so did Jardine... and Jardine took out the guy who Tito could never seem to get past...


Like I say, all three of those guys are "on the bubble." Chuck, Wandy and Tito benefit from being bunched together, and as soon as one of them asserts himself, he'll climb over the other two. Any of the three could also drop like a stone soon.


Posted by TNunley

what about Machida? I know he hasn't been extremely tested (even though he's beaten some big name guys in different org's), but just coming off a win why did he drop 2 places?


Machida's drop has more to do with Jardine and Griffin's performances than his own. That said, I wasn't too impressed with his win over Nakamura. Like I said earlier, Nakamura has never impressed me, and Machida's inability to crush him only compounded my opinion that Machida is a 2nd-tier fighter.
nubby
10/1/07 3:37:44PM
The Jardine argument is strong. But shit does it ever make me want to cry. You are absolutely correct that Jardine destroyed Forrest and convincingly beat Liddell.

However Jardine was also KOed by a newcomer in Houston Alexander. If Alexander proves to be the real deal then its more excusable but Alexander is not proven yet.
Pitbull09
10/2/07 1:24:46AM
lol I love how you made such a great analysis of the division and half the posts on here are "NO way! this guy should be 5 instead of 6!" or stuff like that.

Your personally my favorite analysist on this site and I;m sure to many others, props to you.
Pitbull09
10/2/07 1:27:50AM
You should also do more breakdowns on other divisions, specifically lightwieght as i think that division is gettign stacked and would like to see your opinion. Welterweight would be good to see too.
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