Re-evaluation of the "No Fighter Bashing" rule.

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KungFuMaster
8/15/12 3:34:41PM

Posted by cowcatcher


Posted by KungFuMaster


Posted by MuayThaiGeek13

Not sure if I even understand the rule completely regardless I don't see the point in trash talking our heros. Critisizism on the other hand, is in a different realm...atleast you had something debate worthy to bring up. must spread love KFM



I'm not concerned with bashing fighters; I don't like to do that... I'm more focused on being able to speculate about whether or not a fight was thrown and things of that nature.



You have to consider that it's a sport, and especially that it's MMA. In all sports there are seemingly miraculous comebacks, and even more so when it's a sport like MMA where one punch or TD can change the tide of a fight dramatically. At the level of the UFC, where one bad performance can cost a guy his job, and when he only can count on getting a check a few times a year tops, do you really think guys are willing to throw fights?

In the case of Rumble/Vitor, you have to realize what a toll weight cutting takes on the body, especially for a guy like Johnson that cuts huge amounts of weight for a fight. Cutting 10 pounds the day before a fight can take a toll, imagine cutting 30. Speculation like that is silly, and that's the nice word for it. It doesn't have a place on these boards.

I will add that I'm sure fighters drop fights intentionally in smaller organizations, ie Bob Sapp, so it's not like it never happens, but it just doesn't make sense for it to happen in the UFC just like it doesn't make sense in the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc. There's no reason to throw fights at that level because it can ruin a career. I don't see many fighters willing to take that chance, and the UFC for sure doesn't want that happening on their watch, nor would they promote that happening. It would be suicide for them as an organization in this day and age where information flows so freely.



You told me what you thought happened in the Belfort vs Rumble fight. Now, if I may, I like to tell you what I think may have happened.

Rumble missed weight significantly. The Brazilians were furious. Dana was upset. Is it not possible something was said to Rumble to make him throw the fight? I would not be saying this if there was nothing to go on. During the fight, Rumble looked to be saving himself punishment by flattening himself out for the choke. Vitor looked to be confused for a slight second as to why his opponent was not putting up much of a struggle and saw how easily available the choke was for him - and that was when he opted to submit instead of reigning down more punches from the back mount. Is it possible this may have happened? If you listen to Vitor's post fight comment, he almost sounded as though he knew he was given a gift. He was upset it wasn't the fight he was looking for but somewhat gracious that he won in easy fashion.

I agree most fighters will not throw fights but in rare and sensitive cases like the Belfort and Rumble fight, I can definitely entertain the thought.

If I am able to speculate within reason the way I just did, then there not need be a changing of the rule.
Bubbles
8/15/12 4:01:30PM

Posted by KungFuMaster

Rumble missed weight significantly. The Brazilians were furious. Dana was upset. Is it not possible something was said to Rumble to make him throw the fight? I would not be saying this if there was nothing to go on. During the fight, Rumble looked to be saving himself punishment by flattening himself out for the choke. Vitor looked to be confused for a slight second as to why his opponent was not putting up much of a struggle and saw how easily available the choke was for him - and that was when he opted to submit instead of reigning down more punches from the back mount. Is it possible this may have happened? If you listen to Vitor's post fight comment, he almost sounded as though he knew he was given a gift. He was upset it wasn't the fight he was looking for but somewhat gracious that he won in easy fashion.

I agree most fighters will not throw fights but in rare and sensitive cases like the Belfort and Rumble fight, I can definitely entertain the thought.


are you serious? You actually think you can tell what Vitor was thinking at a precise moment during a fight and then be able to determine why he made his next move?

How about that Rumble is like a fish out of water on his back? How about going for a rnc takes less energy and has a higher probability of finishing than punching someone you have back mount on? How about Rumble was fatigued by the weight cut and spent a ton of it taking Vitor down? Why would Rumble purposely throw the fight knowing full well if he loses he gets cut and bye bye large paychecks and sponsorships. None of what you theorized makes any logical sense other than the fact you enjoy conspiracy theories.
KungFuMaster
8/15/12 4:04:13PM
I just watched the fight again and Rumble made no attempt to defend the choke. The tap looked like the tap of a man who didn't want anymore rather than a man who tapped due to suffocation.
Shawn91111
8/15/12 4:21:53PM

Posted by KungFuMaster

I just watched the fight again and Rumble made no attempt to defend the choke. The tap looked like the tap of a man who didn't want anymore rather than a man who tapped due to suffocation.



Like he did in the Koscheck fight and stuff?
Poor_Franklin
8/15/12 4:46:00PM
had Rumble been allowed to stay in the UFC, i'd say it was possible, but as was said before, i see no way Rumble had anything to gain by throwing the fight.
grappler0000
8/15/12 5:21:43PM
There is a HUGE difference between someone being defeated mentally and someone throwing a fight. If you want to say that Rumble had mentally checked out before the fight was over, then explain why when you state so. Otherwise, fight fixing is a VERY serious accusation. That's not something that just gets thrown around lightly.

Ironically, I think this conversation has actually strengthened the argument for the rule on discussions about fight fixing.
aussiemma
8/15/12 5:42:57PM

Posted by jjeans


Posted by aussiemma

i don't think calling michael bisping a douche is fighter bashing. Is hard to say where to draw the line though.





If you don't have anything nice to say don't say it. If you have to say it visit another forum.



who are you to tell me to only say ''nice'' things ? if i see something im gonna call it. I understand that there is a line but calling bisping a douche does not cross it.
The way i see it, someone is going to let you know on this site in the form of a private warning if you say something that goes to far, that is the only way to judge it.
jjeans
8/15/12 5:54:45PM

Posted by aussiemma

who are you to tell me to only say ''nice'' things ? if i see something im gonna call it. I understand that there is a line but calling bisping a douche does not cross it.









The way i see it, someone is going to let you know on this site in the form of a private warning if you say something that goes to far, that is the only way to judge it.



aussiemma
8/15/12 6:16:38PM
hey what happened to being nice ?
BossHog
8/15/12 7:04:37PM
Agree with the general sentient, but I believe the rule has to be black and white because enforcing a more arbitrary rule would cause major issues.
Chael_Sonnen
8/15/12 7:10:10PM

Posted by KungFuMaster

I just watched the fight again and Rumble made no attempt to defend the choke. The tap looked like the tap of a man who didn't want anymore rather than a man who tapped due to suffocation.



You didn't happen to watch the fight again DRUNK with Jon Jones did you? If you did, I hope you called the kid a taxi

The only thing that Rumble "threw" in that fight was his pre-fight meal, because that performance was worth sticking your fingers down your throat and vomiting like Bones Jones persona....Vitor is several levels above Rumble, plain and simple.
MuayThaiGeek13
8/15/12 7:43:07PM
Imo Chael_Sonnen blatantly fighter bashed there.

But like I stated before idk the rule, so I have no way of judging these things.
MMAcca
8/16/12 1:06:40AM

Posted by aussiemma


Posted by jjeans


Posted by aussiemma

i don't think calling michael bisping a douche is fighter bashing. Is hard to say where to draw the line though.





If you don't have anything nice to say don't say it. If you have to say it visit another forum.



who are you to tell me to only say ''nice'' things ? if i see something im gonna call it. I understand that there is a line but calling bisping a douche does not cross it.
The way i see it, someone is going to let you know on this site in the form of a private warning if you say something that goes to far, that is the only way to judge it.



I disagree with your comment on Bisping.

Therefore, calling Bisping a douche is fighter bashing.

End of.

aussiemma
8/16/12 2:55:14AM
hehehe all the bisping lovers are banding together
Adrenaline
8/16/12 5:11:00AM

Posted by MuayThaiGeek13

Imo Chael_Sonnen blatantly fighter bashed there.





Not really, he made a joke about a situation that happened and that Jones plead guilty to. It wasn't speculation, it was fact.

Then he stated that Johnson's performance was vomit worthy and that Vitor is just a better fighter.

No bashing to be found.


GettinsomeBas
8/31/12 2:24:08PM
What about Bob Sapp , is it an "if you cant say something nice..." type of deal ?
bjj1605
9/18/12 5:07:38PM
The rules and enforcement are fine as is.

They have loosened up on this a lot since I got here and any more would be a mistake I think. This rule is one of the things that separates the PG from Sherdog.

IMO, usually "criticism" is acceptable but outright "bashing" is not.

Consider this question when you post something critical KFM:

Is your statement backed up by facts or is it more similar to a conspiracy theory?

I'm not a MOD but that seems to be where they draw the line. Suggesting that you know someone's internal motivations (by suggesting that they threw the fight) seems to cross that line. There are no observable facts to support your opinion because none of us can know what another person is really thinking.

The only way those kinds of statements would be acceptable is if there was evidence of it, like a leaked video or an admission by a fighter or UFC official.

I will say though that I think the PG overreacted by banning Grease-Gate threads back in the day. In that case there was evidence to discuss and it wasn't just some conspiracy.
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