Hm

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shinobi
4/22/07 1:51:20AM
Not flaming any fighter or organization but unless UFC is paying off people to lose etc ( not accusing them of it ), then i suppose Pride is the lesser of organizations at this point. Cro Cop got dominated. Didn't attempt much offense, and his defense wasn't impressive. Everyone thought Anderson Silva was a huge thing, yet Lutter exposed his ground game. ( Silva's stand up is great, not taking away from that ), personally, i see this year as the year nobody should bet on fights ( jk ), but it is getting harder to predict. Also, Arona, etc, i just don't get it, i understand any given sunday, but man, every event?
pv3Hpv3p
4/22/07 2:57:55AM

Posted by shinobi

Not flaming any fighter or organization but unless UFC is paying off people to lose etc ( not accusing them of it ), then i suppose Pride is the lesser of organizations at this point. Cro Cop got dominated. Didn't attempt much offense, and his defense wasn't impressive. Everyone thought Anderson Silva was a huge thing, yet Lutter exposed his ground game. ( Silva's stand up is great, not taking away from that ), personally, i see this year as the year nobody should bet on fights ( jk ), but it is getting harder to predict. Also, Arona, etc, i just don't get it, i understand any given sunday, but man, every event?



Didn't Anderson Silva win that fight on the ground?
shinobi
4/22/07 3:01:10AM

Posted by pv3Hpv3p


Posted by shinobi

Not flaming any fighter or organization but unless UFC is paying off people to lose etc ( not accusing them of it ), then i suppose Pride is the lesser of organizations at this point. Cro Cop got dominated. Didn't attempt much offense, and his defense wasn't impressive. Everyone thought Anderson Silva was a huge thing, yet Lutter exposed his ground game. ( Silva's stand up is great, not taking away from that ), personally, i see this year as the year nobody should bet on fights ( jk ), but it is getting harder to predict. Also, Arona, etc, i just don't get it, i understand any given sunday, but man, every event?



Didn't Anderson Silva win that fight on the ground?



he did, but it was terrible technique, and he got lucky, ( yes luck can help in a fight, and he is a champ for finding a way ) but still. Nate marquardt will win against him, i'll bet on that.
pv3Hpv3p
4/22/07 3:16:33AM

Posted by shinobi


Posted by pv3Hpv3p


Posted by shinobi

Not flaming any fighter or organization but unless UFC is paying off people to lose etc ( not accusing them of it ), then i suppose Pride is the lesser of organizations at this point. Cro Cop got dominated. Didn't attempt much offense, and his defense wasn't impressive. Everyone thought Anderson Silva was a huge thing, yet Lutter exposed his ground game. ( Silva's stand up is great, not taking away from that ), personally, i see this year as the year nobody should bet on fights ( jk ), but it is getting harder to predict. Also, Arona, etc, i just don't get it, i understand any given sunday, but man, every event?



Didn't Anderson Silva win that fight on the ground?



he did, but it was terrible technique, and he got lucky, ( yes luck can help in a fight, and he is a champ for finding a way ) but still. Nate marquardt will win against him, i'll bet on that.



I don't doubt that Nate will win the fight, but I don't think that Lutter exactley dominated him on the ground or anything. There was no GnP, and if I remember correctly only the one sub attempt at the end of the first. The only thing that Travis did well was take him down a few times, and for a guy well versed in BJJ like Anderson, I don't think that's as much of a worry for him as it would be a wrestler... Just my opinion though, I don't think A.Silva's ground game is half as bad as people say
shinobi
4/22/07 3:27:53AM

Posted by pv3Hpv3p


Posted by shinobi


Posted by pv3Hpv3p


Posted by shinobi

Not flaming any fighter or organization but unless UFC is paying off people to lose etc ( not accusing them of it ), then i suppose Pride is the lesser of organizations at this point. Cro Cop got dominated. Didn't attempt much offense, and his defense wasn't impressive. Everyone thought Anderson Silva was a huge thing, yet Lutter exposed his ground game. ( Silva's stand up is great, not taking away from that ), personally, i see this year as the year nobody should bet on fights ( jk ), but it is getting harder to predict. Also, Arona, etc, i just don't get it, i understand any given sunday, but man, every event?



Didn't Anderson Silva win that fight on the ground?



he did, but it was terrible technique, and he got lucky, ( yes luck can help in a fight, and he is a champ for finding a way ) but still. Nate marquardt will win against him, i'll bet on that.



I don't doubt that Nate will win the fight, but I don't think that Lutter exactley dominated him on the ground or anything. There was no GnP, and if I remember correctly only the one sub attempt at the end of the first. The only thing that Travis did well was take him down a few times, and for a guy well versed in BJJ like Anderson, I don't think that's as much of a worry for him as it would be a wrestler... Just my opinion though, I don't think A.Silva's ground game is half as bad as people say



i think he looked like a beginner, sticking his arms out from those weak punches, i'll agree with you on that heavily. and andersons triangle wasnt that tight, it was the elbows that finished lutter, those were getting vicious. not taking anything away from anderson silva, i just think his ground game is overrated is all.
pv3Hpv3p
4/22/07 3:47:29AM

Posted by shinobi


Posted by pv3Hpv3p


Posted by shinobi


Posted by pv3Hpv3p


Posted by shinobi

Not flaming any fighter or organization but unless UFC is paying off people to lose etc ( not accusing them of it ), then i suppose Pride is the lesser of organizations at this point. Cro Cop got dominated. Didn't attempt much offense, and his defense wasn't impressive. Everyone thought Anderson Silva was a huge thing, yet Lutter exposed his ground game. ( Silva's stand up is great, not taking away from that ), personally, i see this year as the year nobody should bet on fights ( jk ), but it is getting harder to predict. Also, Arona, etc, i just don't get it, i understand any given sunday, but man, every event?



Didn't Anderson Silva win that fight on the ground?



he did, but it was terrible technique, and he got lucky, ( yes luck can help in a fight, and he is a champ for finding a way ) but still. Nate marquardt will win against him, i'll bet on that.



I don't doubt that Nate will win the fight, but I don't think that Lutter exactley dominated him on the ground or anything. There was no GnP, and if I remember correctly only the one sub attempt at the end of the first. The only thing that Travis did well was take him down a few times, and for a guy well versed in BJJ like Anderson, I don't think that's as much of a worry for him as it would be a wrestler... Just my opinion though, I don't think A.Silva's ground game is half as bad as people say



i think he looked like a beginner, sticking his arms out from those weak punches, i'll agree with you on that heavily. and andersons triangle wasnt that tight, it was the elbows that finished lutter, those were getting vicious. not taking anything away from anderson silva, i just think his ground game is overrated is all.



I guess I wouldn't go as far as to say that his ground game is world class, but I just think that it's good enough to defend from the bottom and give him an opportunity to take the fight back to his realm...

And I'm not trying to make any excuses for the man or anything, but I thought I remembered hearing about him having a leg/knee/ankle injury coming into that fight? I don't have a source or anything, so take it for what it's worth, but that can do horrible things to a persons ground game.
shinobi
4/22/07 9:51:42PM

Posted by pv3Hpv3p


Posted by shinobi


Posted by pv3Hpv3p


Posted by shinobi


Posted by pv3Hpv3p


Posted by shinobi

Not flaming any fighter or organization but unless UFC is paying off people to lose etc ( not accusing them of it ), then i suppose Pride is the lesser of organizations at this point. Cro Cop got dominated. Didn't attempt much offense, and his defense wasn't impressive. Everyone thought Anderson Silva was a huge thing, yet Lutter exposed his ground game. ( Silva's stand up is great, not taking away from that ), personally, i see this year as the year nobody should bet on fights ( jk ), but it is getting harder to predict. Also, Arona, etc, i just don't get it, i understand any given sunday, but man, every event?



Didn't Anderson Silva win that fight on the ground?



he did, but it was terrible technique, and he got lucky, ( yes luck can help in a fight, and he is a champ for finding a way ) but still. Nate marquardt will win against him, i'll bet on that.



I don't doubt that Nate will win the fight, but I don't think that Lutter exactley dominated him on the ground or anything. There was no GnP, and if I remember correctly only the one sub attempt at the end of the first. The only thing that Travis did well was take him down a few times, and for a guy well versed in BJJ like Anderson, I don't think that's as much of a worry for him as it would be a wrestler... Just my opinion though, I don't think A.Silva's ground game is half as bad as people say



i think he looked like a beginner, sticking his arms out from those weak punches, i'll agree with you on that heavily. and andersons triangle wasnt that tight, it was the elbows that finished lutter, those were getting vicious. not taking anything away from anderson silva, i just think his ground game is overrated is all.



I guess I wouldn't go as far as to say that his ground game is world class, but I just think that it's good enough to defend from the bottom and give him an opportunity to take the fight back to his realm...

And I'm not trying to make any excuses for the man or anything, but I thought I remembered hearing about him having a leg/knee/ankle injury coming into that fight? I don't have a source or anything, so take it for what it's worth, but that can do horrible things to a persons ground game.



i didn't hear that but if it was true, it definitely would. i'd hate to grapple with a leg injury.
JimiMak
4/22/07 11:33:02PM
1st off, no offense but you don't need to quote so much.
Anyway the real point is I think ppl are severely underestimating A.S.'s ground game. He is a striker, so the ground is his "second" game or w/e you want to call it, who is a Nog JJBB. I think in the Lutter fight he showed he had more ground game than most ppl thought. Shoulder chokes don't always look as tight as they feel. Someone with a lot of thick muscle mass (like a dehydrated, overweight Lutter) can have the shoulder get tight on the carotid when it looks loose. Take for example Hughes/Newton I. When Matt goes out it doesn't look that tight, but he couldn't get oxygen. Or when Nog choked out Goodridge he didn't look as closed as a smaller fighter would've.
I think Silva has shown he can do more than strike. I've got him beating Marquart. Nate always struck me as the type that'll never take it all. If I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time this week.
shinobi
4/23/07 7:56:03PM
after what happened with cro cop its hard to put money on any fighter. i see your point with the carotid artery, however its not really the choke i'm stressing, the way he flailed his arms around...just seemed new to the BJJ art ( not literally ), i think Nate will beat him on the ground, but if he stands too long, Silva will take his head off.
bayonetxwork
4/23/07 8:35:57PM
Just because his wrestling is terrible, IMHO, lutter took him down with two of the most worthless takedowns I've ever seen. The only other person those would work on would probably be Kongo

But just because his wrestling isn't great, that doesn't mean he can't hold his own on the ground. He did get caught, and got mounted, but still, you really think Nate will have that much of a better chance than lutter?
shinobi
4/23/07 10:10:15PM

Posted by bayonetxwork

Just because his wrestling is terrible, IMHO, lutter took him down with two of the most worthless takedowns I've ever seen. The only other person those would work on would probably be Kongo

But just because his wrestling isn't great, that doesn't mean he can't hold his own on the ground. He did get caught, and got mounted, but still, you really think Nate will have that much of a better chance than lutter?



yes i do. nate is stronger and a much better grappler, he nullified ivan salaverry's grappling to the point where the fight was a snoozefest, and anderson silva's ground game isnt as great as ivan's, so i see nate being able to finish on the ground, stand up i see silva ko-ing nate. and yeah, lutter's takedowns werent greta and he didnt show up in great shape.