Is it possible?

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warglory
3/19/07 4:29:42PM
Is it possible that there is a single martial art or a single individul who practices a single martial art that could hold up well against a mixed martial artist? I love MMA and its various techniques, but I can't deny how unbelievably cool it would be to see some 60 year old grand master come out of some little Chinese village and just dismantle Fedor or Cro Cop.

This is obviously very Hollywood-ish in nature, and probably unlikely, but has anyone else ever considered that there is an individual with one discipline, or some underground art that could still hold their/its own against well rounded fighters?
AchillesHeel
3/19/07 4:59:08PM
I've always wondered about aikido. I studied it for about ten seconds awhile back, and it seems fairly well-suited to repelling striking and grappling attacks.

I imagine an elite aikido practitioner would have excellent chokes and throws, similar to judo (a la Karo Parisyan). There's no sprawl in aikido, but their takedown defense would be pretty good, just from footwork and balance (a la BJ Penn). And it's a circular, reactive style, so they'd have the whole Bruce Lee "be like water" thing in spades.

It would have a couple of big drawbacks, though. It uses a lot of small-joint manipulation and soft-target strikes, both of which are illegal in MMA. It doesn't emphasize power striking or arm and leg manipulation (at least, not as much as BJJ does), and an aikido practitioner wouldn't have the chin that people in other disciplines have (at least, not from practice, anybody can just be naturally tough). It also doesn't emphasize conditioning and strength much, the way boxing, wrestling and muay thai do.
Svartorm
3/19/07 11:38:32PM
That depends on if we're talking MMA or legit fighting.

Is there a single art that could be used to dismantle an MMA fighter in an MMA match? No. The rules and requirement of gloves would more than likely ruin their chances.

Is there a single art that could be used to dismantle an MMA fighter in a real fight? Absolutely.

As far as the art, I think it would depend more on the individuals involved than the arts themselves, but some truly gifted martial artists could drop MMA guys no problem.

For an example, I'll see if I can't find a video of a Jeet Kune Do guy I saw in a video once who moved faster than anyone I've ever seen. Not hard to imagine him pummeling someone in half a second. Its not because he does JKD though, but because hes a phyiscal phenom.
migo
3/21/07 2:17:34AM
Wrestling. They can neutralise standup, are pretty hard to submit even without experience and slams can finish you.
Svartorm
3/21/07 5:27:57AM
History tells us no on that one.

That Eldari guy who fought Fujita was an Olympian, wasn't he? So was that Karim guy from Egypt who Fujita smoked. That Azerbijani wrestler that jumped around like a kangaroo and caught a knee to the groin was world ranked as well, and those are only the recent ones.

Just the fact that setting up a shoot when you have zero stand-up skill is hard enough, but the thing is is that the only way a wrestler will win with no other skills is via lay and pray, and thats a risky game. At least a pure boxer, kickboxer, or karateka has a punchers chance. A wrestler doesn't even have that.
migo
3/21/07 6:19:32AM
There's a video on the UG of a guy with no MMA training of any kind, only Greco, completely destroying an MMA fighter (obviously not that experienced). Koschek is also a case of a wrestler being able to beat MMA fighters. He beat Leben and Leben's a good wrestler with solid MMA credentials beforehand.
Jeffanori-Gomi
3/21/07 1:12:25PM
I agree wrestlers have a big advantage in the UFC

but not so much in PRIDE. Rules make a difference there IMO
crimethinc
3/21/07 1:21:33PM
Of course it's possible. But likely? No.
hippysmacker
3/21/07 1:43:23PM

Posted by crimethinc

Of course it's possible. But likely? No.



I agree, but a BJJ guy with a good chin would have the best chance. They could just stall, wear out the other guy, then sub him.
madmarck
3/21/07 3:22:55PM

Posted by hippysmacker


Posted by crimethinc

Of course it's possible. But likely? No.



I agree, but a BJJ guy with a good chin would have the best chance. They could just stall, wear out the other guy, then sub him.


Sorry Hippy but you are wrong. Clearly kickboxing and Sambo are the best way to go. the Top guys in Weight classes from HW-WW all have excellent-amazing kickboxing.


Who can beat this guy with anything? Only guy that did beat him was wiht a illegal strike. Clearly Fedor has mastered the art of MMA.
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pv3Hpv3p
3/21/07 3:40:10PM

Posted by hippysmacker


Posted by crimethinc

Of course it's possible. But likely? No.



I agree, but a BJJ guy with a good chin would have the best chance. They could just stall, wear out the other guy, then sub him.




Hmmmm... Sounds an aweful lot like Big Nog... Although his standup has greatly improved in the past few years...
migo
3/22/07 12:34:05AM

Posted by Jeffanori-Gomi

I agree wrestlers have a big advantage in the UFC

but not so much in PRIDE. Rules make a difference there IMO



And on the street. Slam on concrete can do a lot of damage.
madmarck
3/22/07 7:25:45AM

Posted by migo

Wrestling. They can neutralise standup, are pretty hard to submit even without experience and slams can finish you.


Wrestlers without sub expericne equal Royce vs any big fighter from UFC 1-4
warglory
3/22/07 4:39:25PM

Posted by madmarck


Posted by migo

Wrestling. They can neutralise standup, are pretty hard to submit even without experience and slams can finish you.


Wrestlers without sub expericne equal Royce vs any big fighter from UFC 1-4



Huh? Are you saying Royce fought wrestlers? Or that Royce is the wrestler?
jdubs
3/22/07 8:49:22PM
of course its possible, all it takes is one punch
mrsumo
3/23/07 3:02:44AM
This has been a big debate since MMA popped up in the US around 15 years ago. There are a lot of traditional martial arts that include strikes/kicks and groundwork/submissions. The problem is finding a traditional martial artist that trains like a MMA fighter. But really the main answer you will come across from tma ists is that their techniques are too deadly or vicious for sporting contests. Which means nut shots and eye pokes and the sort. Those are the seceret deadly ninja tools that we can never see in the ring. It is true that the sport aspect has rules that make it harder for many arts to shine. Like no small joint locks or pressure point strikes. And that seems to be the main focus of many martial arts. In MMA or TMA a punch is a punch and a choke is a choke, it's just how you train and not what you train that makes the difference.
migo
3/23/07 3:59:41PM

Posted by madmarck


Posted by migo

Wrestling. They can neutralise standup, are pretty hard to submit even without experience and slams can finish you.


Wrestlers without sub expericne equal Royce vs any big fighter from UFC 1-4



That was with 15 minutes against Severn. Rounds are 5 minutes these days.