A 10-2 Round.....?

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jjeans
12/9/13 3:51:52PM
3 strike attempts, 1 failed takedown attempt and landing 1 strike gave Perosh 9 points.

Bader landed 61 strikes, attempted 70 punches and went 100% on one takedown and gets 10 points.

In what planet does that make sense.

Strikes thrown 70/3 = 23/1
Strikes Accuracy 76 v 33
Takedown accuracy = 100/0
Takedowns defended 0/0 (15 points for each)

199 v 34
5.9 v 1

Ryan Bader 199 collective points in the final round and Perosh generated 34.

For our sake of argument Ryan Bader is 6 times more effective but earns one point more.

If you are give Ryan Bader a 10 for that round, for his striking and his takedowns and his accuracy, then mathematically you give Perosh.....





2.






According to my mathematical based system the final round of Bader/Perosh was a 10-2 round.

Now when you watch the round can you justify it?

Your instincts say no because your used to this "10-9 and 10-7 is practically beaten to death"

But what have you witnessed. One guy with 0 answers for the entire round.





Back to the real system.

If Perosh/Bader rd3 wasn't a 10-7 round I don't know what is or what the point of a 10 point must system if - 2 judges saying that was a 10-9 round is insane.

Rd1
Strikes 45v5
TD's 1 for 1 v 0 for 1
Striking Accuracy 56% vs 19%

Rd 2
Strikes 50v5
TD's 1 for 1 v 0 for 0
Striking Acc 81% v 43%

Rd 3
Strikes 61v1
TD's 1 for 1 v 0 for 0
Striking Acc 76% v 33%

Statistically Bader won every round 10-8 with a case being made for 10-7 on the final round.
I scored it 10-9, 10-8, 10-7.
The freedom which the 10 point scoring system gives is there is no rules to say what you justify as 10-2 vs 10-8.

If a judge scored that last round 10-2 would it have been justified, could you have justified it.
At what point did Perosh earn 8 points?
What made him earn 9?
Did he offer anything to gain more than 2 points? And most importantly.... What?
Webbie
12/9/13 4:10:19PM
The worst part is that later that night someone scored a 10-8 round in the Bigfoot/Hunt fight
DrivenDavies15
12/9/13 4:28:03PM
I mean ya you do make some good points but it's tough to say someone getting a 10-2 round because it just doesn't happen. If we saw some fights getting scored like this, the judging is already bad it would probably result in some crazy scores in the future
If 10-7's were ever to be scored, that probably would be the time to use it. However I don't think judges have the chance to look at the strike/takedown stats and differntials at the end of each round before they score, do they?
I think 10-7 is probably the lowest they schould go and use it very, very rarely. When there is only three-five rounds 10-8's make enough of a difference.
Perosh definitely didn't do enough to score 9 points in any rounds but to get an 8 is already a huge hindering in the fight and I guess since he didn't get finished that is enough to justify him scoring 7-8 points, which I know sounds kinda stupid but that's how it is.
jjeans
12/9/13 4:43:02PM

Posted by DrivenDavies15

I mean ya you do make some good points but it's tough to say someone getting a 10-2 round because it just doesn't happen. If we saw some fights getting scored like this, the judging is already bad it would probably result in some crazy scores in the future
If 10-7's were ever to be scored, that probably would be the time to use it. However I don't think judges have the chance to look at the strike/takedown stats and differntials at the end of each round before they score, do they?
I think 10-7 is probably the lowest they schould go and use it very, very rarely. When there is only three-five rounds 10-8's make enough of a difference.
Perosh definitely didn't do enough to score 9 points in any rounds but to get an 8 is already a huge hindering in the fight and I guess since he didn't get finished that is enough to justify him scoring 7-8 points, which I know sounds kinda stupid but that's how it is.



I understand your points and the reason we don't see rounds scored like this is because it isnt traditional and it's "a huge hinderence in the fight"

But what did Perosh actually do to deserve 7 or 8 points other than last the 5 minutes?
Prevented Bader from moving to mount?

You're scoring everything that Perosh did 8 points. But yet Bader did 6 times more than that.... So why is he only being awarded 10 points?

No judges don't have access to stats but there seems to be no justification between a 10-9 round and a 10-8 round.

The system is effectively a 3 point system... Not a 10 point system.

10-10 draw
10-9 is apparently a standard round? when 10-9 implies a close round with barely a deciding factor at all.
10-8 is a beatdown but 80% is a fucking good job, 10-8 is a close round but for about 1 minute Fighter A had control.

And so on.
10-2 Would be Perosh Bader
10-0 would be the other guy not even trying.

What is the point of a 10 point must system if you can't go below 6?
Webbie
12/9/13 4:59:10PM

Posted by jjeans

If a judge scored that last round 10-2 would it have been justified, could you have justified it.
At what point did Perosh earn 8 points?
What made him earn 9?
Did he offer anything to gain more than 2 points? And most importantly.... What?



No, I don't think a 10-2 round would've been justified.

Perosh doesn't have to "earn" the 8 points. Like DD pointed out, he survived, and like you pointed out yourself, he prevented Bader from mounting him. I wouldn't have argued with a 10-7 score for all three rounds, but a 10-2 isn't even allowed. You can't break the rules of the scoring system no matter how one-sided a round may be.
jjeans
12/9/13 5:10:34PM

Posted by Webbie


Posted by jjeans

If a judge scored that last round 10-2 would it have been justified, could you have justified it.
At what point did Perosh earn 8 points?
What made him earn 9?
Did he offer anything to gain more than 2 points? And most importantly.... What?



No, I don't think a 10-2 round would've been justified.

Perosh doesn't have to "earn" the 8 points. Like DD pointed out, he survived, and like you pointed out yourself, he prevented Bader from mounting him. I wouldn't have argued with a 10-7 score for all three rounds, but a 10-2 isn't even allowed. You can't break the rules of the scoring system no matter how one-sided a round may be.



In the scoring system where does it say 10-2 isn't allowed? What rules is it breaking? All it's doing is breaking current tradition.

I see what your saying, it's not a case of earning, it's a case of deducting but why are we deducting only 2 points I think you could deduct 4 or 5
prozacnation1978
12/9/13 5:11:42PM
Doesn't make sense.

I was expecting 30-25 scores across the board
I would have called the fight in the third a tko for Bader

Perish didn't need to absorb anymore punishment
tepid55
12/9/13 5:33:54PM
In the 10-point must system , the biggest round someone can get is 10-6.
UFC_Fanatic
12/9/13 5:51:50PM

Posted by jjeans

10-0 would be the other guy not even trying.



As an example of how to score such a round, if such a round could be scored (I'm not sure that in the 10 point must a person can get less than 6), to me, given your example of the other guy not trying, think Kalib Starns vs Nate Quarry rd 3 if I'm remembering right.
whodat
12/9/13 6:34:22PM
I think the only way to get a 10-6 is to have a point deducted.

Completely agree that there is no excuse for all the judges not scoring at least 2 of the rounds 10-8. And I agree they could have easily scores them 10-7.

Changes need to happen to MMA judging without a doubt.
Wether it's as simple as better educating the judges or something as extreme as creating a whole new system.
Webbie
12/9/13 7:20:13PM

Posted by jjeans


Posted by Webbie


Posted by jjeans

If a judge scored that last round 10-2 would it have been justified, could you have justified it.
At what point did Perosh earn 8 points?
What made him earn 9?
Did he offer anything to gain more than 2 points? And most importantly.... What?



No, I don't think a 10-2 round would've been justified.

Perosh doesn't have to "earn" the 8 points. Like DD pointed out, he survived, and like you pointed out yourself, he prevented Bader from mounting him. I wouldn't have argued with a 10-7 score for all three rounds, but a 10-2 isn't even allowed. You can't break the rules of the scoring system no matter how one-sided a round may be.



In the scoring system where does it say 10-2 isn't allowed? What rules is it breaking? All it's doing is breaking current tradition.

I see what your saying, it's not a case of earning, it's a case of deducting but why are we deducting only 2 points I think you could deduct 4 or 5



My memory is terrible, but I thought for sure I read that they couldn't go any lower than 10-7 without a point deduction.

I still think 10-2 is a little much no matter what the rules state in regards to judging.

This is from Wikipedia so I have no idea how accurate it is:


The ten-point must system is used for all fights. Three judges score each round with ten points to the winner and nine points or fewer to the other fighter. In New Jersey, the fewest points a fighter can receive is 7.[2] If the round is even, both fighters receive ten points. Penalty points (usually one point for each offence, occasionally two points) decided by the referee are deducted from each judge's score for that round for the offending fighter.

At the end of the fight, each judge submits their total score for all rounds for each fighter, to determine the result by the following criteria.

Unanimous decision win: All three judges have the same fighter as the winner.
Majority decision win: Two judges have one fighter winning the fight and the third judge scores it a draw.
Split decision win: Two judges have one fighter winning the fight and the third judge has the other fighter winning it.
Unanimous draw: All three judges score it a draw.
Majority draw: Two judges score it a draw, and the third judge has a winner.
Split draw: One judge scores it a draw, and the other two judges have different winners.



So in New Jersey you can't go any lower than 7 points, but again, not sure how reliable this information may be. I'm also not sure why this rule would apply strictly to NJ.
whodat
12/9/13 7:36:46PM
Riddle me this...
If the most difference you can have is 4 points then what the helll is the point of saying 10-6 and not 4-0.

It's just a dumb system all around and definitely not suited for MMA.
jae_1833
12/9/13 8:24:29PM
Fuck points altogether...just said fighter A won rounds 1 & 2, and fighter B won round 3 and be done with it. With a round based system instead of judging by the whole fight, then if you win two out of three rounds and somehow lose but don't get finished in any one round then you win.
jjeans
12/9/13 8:26:32PM

Posted by Copenhagen

Riddle me this...
If the most difference you can have is 4 points then what the helll is the point of saying 10-6 and not 4-0.

It's just a dumb system all around and definitely not suited for MMA.



That's one of the points I made, except i used the example of 3-0
And upon which case what did Perosh do to avoid that round be a 10-7?
He landed 1 punch, prevented mount and attempted 3 strikes.
Apparently that now warrants 1 point....
What else did he do to secure the other 2 or according to 2 judges 3?

The system is horrendous if 2 judges can score those 3 rounds 10-9. When the difference between each was just more and more dominant
Webbie
12/9/13 9:18:31PM
The scoring system certainly needs fixing, but I honestly think that if judges just become more willing to score more 10-10 and 10-8 rounds when necessary it could make a world of difference.

Example: Phil Davis vs. Lyoto Machida.

The first two rounds probably should've been scored 10-10, while round three clearly should've been (at least) 10-9 for Machida, which would've corrected that decision.

I agree with you though, Dirty Blue. The 10 point must system is pointless for MMA.
Boo_Radley21
12/10/13 4:38:27AM
Can we just go to the prideish style and just say wow that guy won the fuckin fight. the 10 point must system is so stupid

at the very least just pick a winner for each round
jjeans
12/10/13 7:49:13AM

Posted by UFC_Fanatic


Posted by jjeans

10-0 would be the other guy not even trying.



As an example of how to score such a round, if such a round could be scored (I'm not sure that in the 10 point must a person can get less than 6), to me, given your example of the other guy not trying, think Kalib Starns vs Nate Quarry rd 3 if I'm remembering right.



Yes... I knew somebody would mention that fight.

Statistically Kalib did a better job that Perosh, he threw 14 strikes landing 7 in that third round and Quarry landed 25 out of 56.... Being a coward and avoiding strikes and punches isn't acceptable, but getting pounded on for 5 minutes is only 10-9
pmoney
12/10/13 1:07:12PM
I definitely like the framework you are putting up for this new scoring system JJeans! You could revolutionize the way MMA is judged I would love to see you do a breakdown of the Hunt-Silva fight to see how your scoring system would work with such closely contested bouts.

I scored Bader-Perosh 30-23 for Bader. I tweeted my score live, before the official scores were announced. (Jeans you can verify!) I had the first two rounds 10-8 and the last 10-7.
40ouncetpkid
12/11/13 2:19:35AM
It makes sense but would suck if...

Theorectically speaking. Bader smashed him bad in the first round and earned that score but then say Perosh adjusts and edges out the last two rounds. The score would say 28-22 in favor of bader.
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