M-1 fighter Toni Valtonen has a swastika tattoo

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Rush
9/2/09 9:37:16AM
ncordless
9/2/09 9:47:47AM
He has the right to put hate speech on his body.

The promoters and TV people have the right not to hire him.

If I see him or anyone else with hate speech or symbols on their body at an mma show I will never watch a show by that company again. The onus to act is firmly in the corner of the promoters. They should not allow the guy to compete in their orgs. until he gets the tatoo covered.

emfleek
9/2/09 9:51:15AM

Posted by ncordless

He has the right to put hate speech on his body.

The promoters and TV people have the right not to hire him.

If I see him or anyone else with hate speech or symbols on their body at an mma show I will never watch a show by that company again. The onus to act is firmly in the corner of the promoters. They should not allow the guy to compete in their orgs. until he gets the tatoo covered.




You took the words right out of my mouth.
Hideous
9/2/09 10:45:31AM
I cant be arsed about his tattoo.Its his choice - his right- he has that freedom.
If a company / promoter is willing to enlist him it is your choice as a viewer to support it or not.

I am not offended by it... same as I am not offended by black/brown pride slogans tattoos etc. What happened was awful and should always be remembered but I will still watch the fight cards irrespective of the fighters personal views - religious or political.



sexynick
9/2/09 11:41:22AM
isnt a swastika a budist symbol as well tho? i might be very mistaken but from wht i can remeber from RE at school if u turn it around or something it means peace in the budist religion...
Aaronno9
9/2/09 11:59:46AM
Its not cool, but if he wants to walk around with that on his body for the rest of his life then thats his decision. When we start banning people from competition ect becouse of their beliefs, we become the prejudice ones. I know alot of people will disagree with that but thats my opinion.

What doesnt sit well with me is the fact hes saying he doesnt believe in it anymore. Then why doesnt he have it covered up or removed?
Aaronno9
9/2/09 12:02:32PM

Posted by sexynick

isnt a swastika a budist symbol as well tho? i might be very mistaken but from wht i can remeber from RE at school if u turn it around or something it means peace in the budist religion...



Hindu and Buddist Swasticas are normally very decrotive - the white and red background generally indicates the Nazi Swastica.
Rush
9/2/09 12:08:16PM

Posted by Aaronno9


Posted by sexynick

isnt a swastika a budist symbol as well tho? i might be very mistaken but from wht i can remeber from RE at school if u turn it around or something it means peace in the budist religion...



Hindu and Buddist Swasticas are normally very decrotive - the white and red background generally indicates the Nazi Swastica.




I also believe the in the context of Buddhism, the symbol is not tilted at an angle like the swastika. Though I think Buddhism now uses another symbol.
scoozna
9/2/09 12:10:33PM
Wow, we've reached the age where even an MMA professional (?) has to remove all offending symbols before people will stop boycotting him. I don't agree.

Hate him if you want, but respect his right to deface/mark/ink/tat/whatever his own skin.
cowcatcher
9/2/09 12:27:29PM

Posted by sexynick

isnt a swastika a budist symbol as well tho? i might be very mistaken but from wht i can remeber from RE at school if u turn it around or something it means peace in the budist religion...



someone watched inside mma this week.......
Sir_Karl
9/2/09 12:29:03PM
The SwastiKa is an ancient Sanskrit symbol. The symbol itself actually has a positive meaning. The Nazis corrupted it forever though. If it is Red and Black it is certainly a Nazi "display". However offensive it is...it is his right to wear it and think what he likes. It is also the promotions choice and right to hire him...and it is our choice to watch him or not. I have no issues watching him fight...even though I believe his personal beliefs to be completely ignorant and utterly disrespectful.
It is about choice though. Nazis aren't the only evil ones in the world...nor are Swastikas the only symbols of hate. Ask an African American how they feel about the Confederate flag!!!!!! I see those flags and stickers even up here in NY.
Hate comes in all colors. Choice is something we desperately need to keep "Sacred" though. If you don't like his views...don't watch him. It is good he wears a Swastika...he can't hide his hate or beliefs! Even though I am sure he wouldn't want to hide them...he wants to be abrasive. Now he has "publicity"....the publicity he wants....thanks to whomever posted this!
cowcatcher
9/2/09 12:34:52PM
ok ill go further on the inside mma thing, they talked about it this past week, and the guys says its something stupid he did when he was younger. he also was wearing a patch over it during his last fight, but of course it came off as he started to sweat. its a stupid thing to do to yourself, even if you are just a dumb kid at the time, but if he goes out and gets it covered i think hes shown that hes grown up a bit and it was just a "mistake" from his idiotic youth.
postman
9/2/09 12:51:12PM
This may have been touched on he also has White Pride accross his back. He needs to wear a neoprean sleve on his arm to cover it IMO. His back not sure he can do anything about that.

I remember in 10th grade my history teacher also told me that a swastika was a christan cross then the Nazi party made it their symbol. I have no clue if that is true because the older I get the more full of $hit I find my teachers were.

Also someone said its his right to have it....he is from Finland I belive I don't know how they veiw freedom of speach in his country it may or may not be ok remember just because you might have right dosn't mean others do.
Aaronno9
9/2/09 12:57:13PM

Posted by postman

This may have been touched on he also has White Pride accross his back. He needs to wear a neoprean sleve on his arm to cover it IMO. His back not sure he can do anything about that.





Well, considering nobody even questions Cain Valasquez's brown pride tattoo im not sure its really fair to question a white pride tattoo either. Keeping in mind Cain is fighting on PPV cards infront on millions of people showing his tattoo.
Rush
9/2/09 1:10:48PM

Posted by Aaronno9


Well, considering nobody even questions Cain Valasquez's brown pride tattoo im not sure its really fair to question a white pride tattoo either. Keeping in mind Cain is fighting on PPV cards infront on millions of people showing his tattoo.



I wouldn't doubt the potential for the double standard.


People can say all they want about freedom of speech, but if that speech (text or whatever it is) promotes hate or hate crimes, I do believe that is breaking the law.
Mayhem13
9/2/09 2:06:08PM
forget the hate tats for a minute...

what I wanna know is.... why this dude spells his name the "chick way" with an "i".. instead of the dude way with a "y".
cowcatcher
9/2/09 2:09:06PM
hes from europe
Rush
9/2/09 2:35:23PM

Posted by Mayhem13

forget the hate tats for a minute...

what I wanna know is.... why this dude spells his name the "chick way" with an "i".. instead of the dude way with a "y".




Short for Antonio?
mrsmiley
9/2/09 2:36:28PM

Posted by Aaronno9


Posted by postman

This may have been touched on he also has White Pride accross his back. He needs to wear a neoprean sleve on his arm to cover it IMO. His back not sure he can do anything about that.





Well, considering nobody even questions Cain Valasquez's brown pride tattoo im not sure its really fair to question a white pride tattoo either. Keeping in mind Cain is fighting on PPV cards infront on millions of people showing his tattoo.



I gotta agree with you on this Aaronn9.
kimoron
9/2/09 3:50:46PM
I'm sure Fairtex and Sprawl are just thrilled about having their brands sported by Mr. Eurotrash.
MMA_Alex
9/2/09 5:14:35PM
I bet the majority of the people posting in this thread didn't even read the article. In there, he clearly says he no longer supports the Nazi party and that he is not proud of the tattoo.

"I had a crazy and rebellious youth, I made some faults in my past and I am not proud of these marks. I regret that I ever had these tattoos made. Nowadays I am a dedicated family man and professional athlete, and I am not involved in any politics whatsoever."
postman
9/2/09 6:19:22PM

Posted by MMA_Alex

I bet the majority of the people posting in this thread didn't even read the article. In there, he clearly says he no longer supports the Nazi party and that he is not proud of the tattoo.

"I had a crazy and rebellious youth, I made some faults in my past and I am not proud of these marks. I regret that I ever had these tattoos made. Nowadays I am a dedicated family man and professional athlete, and I am not involved in any politics whatsoever."



I didn't read it but I saw inside MMA and they had a feature on this on friday so I knew about his claims. My question is why have you not at leats got the swastika filled in? Problem solved!

Aaronn9 I didn't know about Cains Tat my question is are there any racist undertones in the words Brown Pride? We all know White Pride has a negative meaning and has very little to do with actualy being Proud to be white and has more to do with disliking other races. I always took brown Pride as more of a pride of heratige then a dislike towards others. I could be completely wrong.

Gogoplatapus
9/2/09 6:23:53PM
I wonder if UFC people were at work on this one, it was front page of my yahoo last night. Far from front page news if you ask me.
telnights
9/2/09 7:15:57PM

Posted by mrsmiley


Posted by Aaronno9


Posted by postman

This may have been touched on he also has White Pride accross his back. He needs to wear a neoprean sleve on his arm to cover it IMO. His back not sure he can do anything about that.





Well, considering nobody even questions Cain Valasquez's brown pride tattoo im not sure its really fair to question a white pride tattoo either. Keeping in mind Cain is fighting on PPV cards infront on millions of people showing his tattoo.



I gotta agree with you on this Aaronn9.



Well in short brown pride doesn't promote the murder and genocide of a race of people. It is estimated the Nazi's murdered over 20 Million people. Not only is this hugely disrespectful to a huge amount of people but it also is really bad for the image of MMA. Now free speech is every mans right but turn around is fair play. I have every right to boycott any promotion that lets him fight. Not that I wasn't already boycotting M-1. By letting him fight says one of two things. 1. Your sympathetic of his hate or 2. To stupid to not truly understand its meaning and the affect it has on others.

I think StrikeForce really needs to take a look at who they are in bed with before they feel the back lash of this. I find it funny how many people seam to think it no big deal. Huge amounts of people died fighting against the Nazi's and they tried to exterminate a race or people. This guy has something on his body that says I support what the Nazi's did. His promotion that let him fight now has direct ties to StrikeForce which has direct links to Viacom.
cowcatcher
9/2/09 7:24:19PM
in all fairness tel, they were addressing the white pride tattoo on his back and comparing it to the brown pride tat on cain. the swastika cant be defended no matter what, but it is a relevant point that the white pride tat isnt as wholly acceptable as brown pride tat. when i hear "white pride" i tend to think that it has racist implications, when i hear "brown pride" i think its more about actual pride and not some underlying hatred for other people. white racists ruined anyone using the term "white pride" because its well known to be more of a hateful thing than a pride thing, its become a definite no-no.
telnights
9/2/09 7:34:12PM

Posted by cowcatcher

in all fairness tel, they were addressing the white pride tattoo on his back and comparing it to the brown pride tat on cain. the swastika cant be defended no matter what, but it is a relevant point that the white pride tat isnt as wholly acceptable as brown pride tat. when i hear "white pride" i tend to think that it has racist implications, when i hear "brown pride" i think its more about actual pride and not some underlying hatred for other people. white racists ruined anyone using the term "white pride" because its well known to be more of a hateful thing than a pride thing, its become a definite no-no.



True but either way comparing someone wearing a swastika and White Pride to someone that has Brown Pride is a huge difference.
cowcatcher
9/2/09 7:38:05PM
i agree completely tel, its obviously about hate and not pride.
XblacksheepX
9/2/09 8:35:18PM
Sorry guys, the ignorance concerning this fascist idiot makes me f'in sick.

1. This is without ANY doubt a tattoo of a soldier carrying a flag of nazi germany on his arm. Means he is, as long as he is not too ashamed of wearing it on his skin, a supporter of National Socialism and the holocaust of 6 million european jews, mostly murdered in an industrial way in concentration camps.
Not to mention the millions killed while aussaulting dozens of countries in world war II.

2. He has two white pride/white power symbols tattoed (back and chest). This movement is without ANY doubt right wing racist and antisemitic. It believes in the superiority of the white race which implifies not only judging people by the colour of their skin but believing non white people are nothing more worth than ****.
(black or brown pride/power on the contrary was mainly a resistance movement against racist oppression from a white majority, coming from a history of slavery! If anybody really wants to tell me that this is the same, must be a goddamn fool!)

3. Another tat says "born to hate" on his belly.

His youth must not only have been idiotic, he must have been the biggest dickhead around. i would'nt be suprised if he was heavily active beating up people who actually had a brain not to believe in his racist views or only had a different skin colour.

A lot of you referring to the freedom of speech, which is indeed one of the most important accomplishment of liberal society. But in this case, youre talking about an attitude, which itself wants to abolish the freedom of speech (and alot more than that) and you just can't tolerate that, if you're interested in keeping your freedom.

In Germany, you go to jail for showing a swastika and/or white power symbols in public. For M-1 it's f'in shameful they let this guy fighting.

And concerning him saying it was his rebellic youth, that is by no means an excuse to not get rid of this tattoed bs. This would be done in a few hours, if would care about it and understand, why this is still offensive to everyone who has a f'n mind. In my opinion, he also needs to make you believe he is not into that fascist hatred anymore and instead knows about the suffering the nazis caused to innocent people. He also should be held responsible to get active against the spread of fascist believes in his country. For example educate the growing youth about what this hatred is about and why it's f'in wrong. Use your knowledge and help to destroy nazi networks, get kids out of that scene and drive them to something useful etc.

DO SOME F'N ANTIFASCIST WORK, and make people believing you that you have changed!! Then, it would be alright to have him reach for something with public interest. period.
papercut
9/2/09 8:45:32PM
"brown pride" is a gang that was recently showcased on the show "gangland" on the history channel. they are localized in nashville tennessee. just saying. off topic.
mentalcase
9/2/09 8:47:18PM
i think any kind of Pride to do with one's skin colour or nationality is stupid, Pride is something that should only be gained though personal achievement not what colour you were born
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