UFC 86 - Discussion/Results Thread (SPOILERS)

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Violence108
7/6/08 12:48:41AM

Posted by mrsmiley

Who got the F N decesion? I had Forrest ahead but my server crashed before the decesion.



yeah mine too, who won?
CanadianCripplr
7/6/08 12:48:42AM
u musta been watchin the same freebee as me...
Aaronno9
7/6/08 12:49:13AM
Rampage is awesome, alot of guys would of been bitter loosing such a close fight but quinton just came straight out and said he got wooped. Even though he didnt imo.
Omega
7/6/08 12:49:30AM
Well one way or the other I did well.
DonnieDarko
7/6/08 12:49:45AM
WINNER Forrest GRRRRRRRRiffon
Aaronno9
7/6/08 12:49:55AM

Posted by Violence108


Posted by mrsmiley

Who got the F N decesion? I had Forrest ahead but my server crashed before the decesion.



yeah mine too, who won?




Forrest.
emfleek
7/6/08 12:50:26AM
Wow.
Violence108
7/6/08 12:50:59AM

Posted by Aaronno9


Posted by Violence108


Posted by mrsmiley

Who got the F N decesion? I had Forrest ahead but my server crashed before the decesion.



yeah mine too, who won?




Forrest.



F*** YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
juanez13
7/6/08 12:51:15AM
dont know why people said they're shocked, i saw forrest as the winner in that fight.


but i gotta take my hats of to Rampage, he hung in there with a bum leg, but damn he needs to learn how check kicks, thats always been a downfall for him.
Aaronno9
7/6/08 12:51:32AM
Wow, siver got owned.
CanadianCripplr
7/6/08 12:51:41AM

Posted by Aaronno9


Posted by Violence108


Posted by mrsmiley

Who got the F N decesion? I had Forrest ahead but my server crashed before the decesion.



yeah mine too, who won?




Forrest.



what was the breakdown? i thought it was too close for me to call, but thought rampage had slight edge, maybe cause I like him tho....
MMAcca
7/6/08 12:53:43AM
RESULTS


MAIN CARD BOUTS:
-Forrest Griffin def Quinton Jackson by Unanimous Decision (48-46, 48-46, 49-46)
-Patrick Cote def. Ricardo Almeida by Split Decision (29-28, 28-29, 29-28)
-Joe Stevenson def. Gleison Tibau by Submission (Guillotine) at 2:57 R2
-Josh Koscheck def. Chris Lytle by Unanimous decision (30-26, 29-28, 30-28)
-Tyson Griffin def. Marcus Aurelio by Unanimous Decision (30-27 x3)



PRELIMINARY BOUTS:
-Gabriel Gonzaga def. Justin McCully by Submission (Americana/Kimura) at 1:57, R1
-Cole Miller def. Jorge Gurgel by Submission (Triangle Choke) at 4:48, R3
-Melvin Guillard def. Dennis Siver by TKO (Strikes) at 0:36, R1
-Justin Buchholz def. Corey Hill by Submission (Rear Naked Choke) at 3:57, R2


Aaronno9
7/6/08 12:53:51AM
I cant remember, i think 2 judges had Forrest by 2 points and one by 3.
juanez13
7/6/08 12:54:27AM
i had picked Rampage, but put $260 on Griffin, giving me a cool $676, that should defenately take me to where im at right now with my wagers (lost about 1800 on wagers, but had good luck on most other)
D0wnUnd6e6r
7/6/08 12:54:28AM

Posted by Aaronno9

Wow, siver got owned.



thanks for reminding me... i gotta have a shitty av now...betting even shittier than i gave emfleek... aaaaanyways @ Forrest!!!!! had rampage winning but f*cking happy for the guy, if there's any fighter in the UFC who deserves a belt it's Forrest.
MMAcca
7/6/08 12:55:10AM

Posted by Aaronno9

I cant remember, i think 2 judges had Forrest by 2 points and one by 3.




Yep


48-46 x2
and
49-46 i think it was
RMFG_187
7/6/08 12:55:27AM
Forrest 48-46, 48-46, 49-46
DevonFoxy
7/6/08 12:56:45AM
Forrest Griffin def. Quinton Jackson via unanimous decision (48-46, 48-46, 49-46).


Thats some really bad judging I understand a split but a UD???I'll respectfully disagree
EON
7/6/08 12:56:57AM
4-5, lol did not like this card
Aaronno9
7/6/08 12:57:48AM
Im just glad Forrest will get the respect he deserves now, it seems every time i see a thread about him, somebodies saying he only beat shogun becouse he was injured, which is fair enough, but theirs no exuse this time.
juanez13
7/6/08 1:00:17AM
dont see how its bad judging, it was a close fight but i dont see how anybody could have said Rampage won that fight
Omega
7/6/08 1:13:52AM
I thought the judging was fair and it ruled against me. Go Forrest.
Pookie
7/6/08 1:33:41AM
When the fight matrix report comes out, watch and see as rampaged landed more shots, and the more powerful shots as well. 4 rounds to one for Forrest? B-b-b-bullshit. I had it 3-2 for rampage and i could see it going either way becuase the judges didnt get the viewpoint we did... but rampage won that fight. Nearly all of forrest's punches were being parried or flat out missing while rampage had about a 40% hit rate with his. total shenanigans.

DevonFoxy
7/6/08 2:01:13AM

Posted by Pookie

When the fight matrix report comes out, watch and see as rampaged landed more shots, and the more powerful shots as well. 4 rounds to one for Forrest? B-b-b-bullshit. I had it 3-2 for rampage and i could see it going either way becuase the judges didnt get the viewpoint we did... but rampage won that fight. Nearly all of forrest's punches were being parried or flat out missing while rampage had about a 40% hit rate with his. total shenanigans.




Thank you Pookie it wasn't even close the damage factor alone I think gave the edge to Rampage. There is no way anyone on this forum can say with all honesty that Forrest won this fight by a UD. That right there is what upset me. All three judges gave it to Forrest (who i really like) I just don't see it. One judge gave Rampage one round!!!

Im just angry I suppose and I really like Griffin but he did not win this fight I personally had it a draw just to be safe and when that decision was read off all I could think about was how the judges need to be separated from the crowd.
Dragonscale
7/6/08 2:07:45AM
Its obvious some of you rampage fans were are just saying rip off because you are his fan, it was close enough in some way that I can see bias making it look different.

We had a house full of neutral viewers and not one picked rampage after watching him get dominated the whole fighty by forrest.... even when rampage had the top, forest almost got him in the triangle and then all rampage did was lay on him.

Forrest dominated... (but not in dominating fashion) that fight.
TimW001
7/6/08 2:14:48AM
I thought Forrest won. Bottom line.

Alot of people are complaining that because it was such a close fight that it should have stuck with the champion, that is not eh case in MMA. That's boxing rules. I see it as, under MMA rules, Forrest won fairly squarely a UD.
Aether
7/6/08 2:15:55AM
Gotta say I disagree with both the cote and griffin decisions.

Cote was pushing forward in round 3 but he was pushing forward into a bunch of jabs, not landing anything, and then got taken down at the end. I think Almeida should've gotten the nod on that one. Really really close, but I disagree with cote winning there.

I also scored rounds 1, 3, and 4 in Rampage's favour. I gave Griffin a 10-8 in round 2 and I thought that round 5 could've gone either way, possibly with a slight nod to griffin. So even if you give Griffin round 5 and a 10-8 in round 2 I still think it should've been a draw or a close decision for Rampage.

I don't really feel like I'm biased in either of these fights. I believed Rampage would win, but I like both fighters and really had no preference. If anything I was rooting for Cote because he's canadian and I still believe he lost that fight.

That being said I don't know if I would call either of them "bullshit" because they were both really, really close. I was pretty surprised that Rampage lost, but I knew with UFC judging and a fight that close anything could happen. I think UFC judges should really have a much more rigid scoring system that weighs out takedowns, submission attempts, submission ESCAPES etc, etc.... Their judging just seems really inconsistent to me. They probably gave round 4 to Forrest because of the triangle attempt, but in similar situations in other fights they have a tendency to score in the favour of the person in the top position provided he escapes, either one is fine as long as you're CONSISTENT and everyone knows what any given tactic is worth relative to any other. A similar point is that in a round like the 3rd round of the almeida cote fight scoring a takedown would usually get you the round since there was really very little happening up to that point.

I don't really think it was "bs" but I disagree with the decisions. It just seems like each judge has their own ideas about which elements should be scored more heavily than others and everyone should be judging by the same criteria withing the same system... Just saying "give the winner 10 points and the loser 9 or less" to people who most likely have little to no knowledge of jiu-jitsu and of many other aspect of the sport isn't good enough.

I thought it was a great night of fights though. Jackson-Griffin was one of the better fights of the year so far. I'm happy for Forrest but I gotta say I disagree with the judges.
Aether
7/6/08 2:19:43AM
http://mmajunkie.com/news/4736/ufc-86-live-results-and-round-by-round-updates.mma

This is almost exactly the breakdown that I had, but like I said i'd probably have given Forrest a 10-8 for round 2, he definitely dominated that round.
Aether
7/6/08 2:43:50AM
I don't really think either of them "won" that fight. I think it was so close that it could easily have been called a draw. I dunno, it seemed too close for a title to change hands... usually it has to be a definitive win.

http://www.cdn.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=13559

I think these are all viable breakdowns of the fight as well. One person has the tie situation I came up with giving forrest the 10-8 and round 5 and the rest to jackson. One has Jackson winning every round except the second giving him a 9-10, and the third has Forrest winning rounds 2, 3, and 5 with a 10-8 in round 2. I think these are all viable scenarios, the one guy giving round 3 to Forrest is questionable to me, other than that I can see very convincing arguments for each judge's score of each round. Round 4 and 5 were the closest and could've both gone either way IMO depending on what you're looking at. Rampage did much more damage and had some great escapes, but forrest also had a REALLY tight triangle. I don't seen how there can be much debate about rounds 1-3 other than whether to give Forrest a 10-8 for round 2.

The fight seemed too close to me for the numbers those judges came up with. I personally think it should've been a draw...

Rd1 10-9 Q
Rd2 10-8 F
Rd3 10-9 Q
Rd4 10-9 Q
Rd5 10-9 F

47 Q - 47 F
ncordless
7/6/08 2:54:50AM
I felt the fight was a draw before the announcement. I had Rampage winning three and Forrest winning 2 with that 10-8 round. I can definitely see that the 5th round was close and cannot argue with Griffin winning the decision. 49-46 though.... that was f#cked up.

On the Cote Almeida fight... it really comes down to what the judge thinks is most important in scoring. Leg kick/reversal/weak gnp or jab/takedown/sub attempt.


In the end, how can anyone be upset with fights that were so close that it was really the judge's view that carried the day. If your fighter won... he got lucky. If your fighter lost, he should have done a little more.


UFC 86- Too close to call.
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