AA - No TD Defense = Little Chance Against Fedor

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JohnnyNapalm
10/6/08 12:09:05PM


After watching Big Country work AA on the ground and get him there without too much difficulty it would appear that this is a serious weakness in AA's game. Imagine if Fedor had gotten AA in the same position that Nelson had him - chances are AA would've been done like Christmas dinner.

Dude better get some serious work done on improving his TD defense if he plans on taking a crack at Fedor. Otherwise it'll be over quicker than a back alley bj.
SmileR
10/6/08 12:22:16PM
Fedor Vs Arlovski will be epic!!!! Man if you're serious and actually think Andrei has little chance against Fedor you're a fool!
Fedors the man at HW and with out doubt the number 1 but Arlovski and Barnett are the most dangerous challengers out there for him right now. How can you say it'll be over that fast?
Andrei is a master sport in sambo and has great BJJ, also he's probably the best HW striker fighting now. Your post has me baffled man!
I'm a Arlovski nuthugger but I'm willing to bet other people will back me up on this.
Also at no point in the whole of the Arlovski - Nelson match did Andrei look close to being finished or subbed.

EDIT: Great picture tho!
JohnnyNapalm
10/6/08 12:48:22PM

Posted by SmileR

Fedor Vs Arlovski will be epic!!!! Man if you're serious and actually think Andrei has little chance against Fedor you're a fool!
Fedors the man at HW and with out doubt the number 1 but Arlovski and Barnett are the most dangerous challengers out there for him right now. How can you say it'll be over that fast?
Andrei is a master sport in sambo and has great BJJ, also he's probably the best HW striker fighting now. Your post has me baffled man!
I'm a Arlovski nuthugger but I'm willing to bet other people will back me up on this.
Also at no point in the whole of the Arlovski - Nelson match did Andrei look close to being finished or subbed.

EDIT: Great picture tho!



AA nuthugger - nuff said.

Seriously dude, watch the fight again. Neslon had AA's arm in great position and it didn't take much to get it there. If Fedor was in that position with AA it'd been over.

Of course Andrei has a chance, but it's a one dimensional chance. AA's Sambo and jitz? Where has it been all these years? Other than his ankle lock on Tim where has he displayed all his great ground skillz? Why didn't he show them against Nelson? Or maybe laying on his back waiting for the ref to stand the fight up is his style of jujitsu
billycarnage
10/6/08 12:50:05PM
I don't think he was really woried about being taken down. The first take down was actually initiated by AA although Nelson ended up on top. Anyway I think that AA intended to walk straight through him and basically underestimated him. He seemed impressed by the fight that Roy put up. I think AA is one of the greatest and he had better keep it standing against Fedor and not take any chances on the ground because Fedor is decisive in his submission game. Fedor will win that fight but AA definately deserves more credit.
JohnnyNapalm
10/6/08 12:56:10PM

Posted by billycarnage

I don't think he was really woried about being taken down. The first take down was actually initiated by AA although Nelson ended up on top. Anyway I think that AA intended to walk straight through him and basically underestimated him. He seemed impressed by the fight that Roy put up. I think AA is one of the greatest and he had better keep it standing against Fedor and not take any chances on the ground because Fedor is decisive in his submission game. Fedor will win that fight but AA definately deserves more credit.



Yes, AA went for the TD and Nelson got the reversal - that was no accident.

AA is one of the greatest? At what? He's got tremendous hand speed and a good hard right (when he's not afraid to use it) and.... and... You got me. What makes him one of the greatest?
SmileR
10/6/08 1:07:16PM

Posted by JohnnyNapalm

AA nuthugger - nuff said.

Seriously dude, watch the fight again. Neslon had AA's arm in great position and it didn't take much to get it there. If Fedor was in that position with AA it'd been over.

Of course Andrei has a chance, but it's a one dimensional chance. AA's Sambo and jitz? Where has it been all these years? Other than his ankle lock on Tim where has he displayed all his great ground skillz? Why didn't he show them against Nelson? Or maybe laying on his back waiting for the ref to stand the fight up is his style of jujitsu



I watched the fight man, I'v watched every Arlovski fight. He had the arm but nothing came of it. Like nothing came of any of the other times Arlovski has been taken down. He's displayed good ground game in many of his fights check back through them they are exciting.
I'm not going to get drawn into a argument over Arlovski with you because reading your response to my comment and to the one posted after your coming across as a bit of a troll. You don't like him or the way he fights don't watch man. He is a great of the sport, but each to their own.
billycarnage
10/6/08 1:10:27PM

Posted by JohnnyNapalm


Posted by billycarnage

I don't think he was really woried about being taken down. The first take down was actually initiated by AA although Nelson ended up on top. Anyway I think that AA intended to walk straight through him and basically underestimated him. He seemed impressed by the fight that Roy put up. I think AA is one of the greatest and he had better keep it standing against Fedor and not take any chances on the ground because Fedor is decisive in his submission game. Fedor will win that fight but AA definately deserves more credit.



Yes, AA went for the TD and Nelson got the reversal - that was no accident.

AA is one of the greatest? At what? He's got tremendous hand speed and a good hard right (when he's not afraid to use it) and.... and... You got me. What makes him one of the greatest?


Okay... you obviously don't like Arlovski. Go ahead and name 10 HW's that are better than him... It gets really difficult around 4 or 5.
He is one of the Greatest!
JohnnyNapalm
10/6/08 1:13:08PM

Posted by SmileR


Posted by JohnnyNapalm

AA nuthugger - nuff said.

Seriously dude, watch the fight again. Neslon had AA's arm in great position and it didn't take much to get it there. If Fedor was in that position with AA it'd been over.

Of course Andrei has a chance, but it's a one dimensional chance. AA's Sambo and jitz? Where has it been all these years? Other than his ankle lock on Tim where has he displayed all his great ground skillz? Why didn't he show them against Nelson? Or maybe laying on his back waiting for the ref to stand the fight up is his style of jujitsu



I watched the fight man, I'v watched every Arlovski fight. He had the arm but nothing came of it. Like nothing came of any of the other times Arlovski has been taken down. He's displayed good ground game in many of his fights check back through them they are exciting.
I'm not going to get drawn into a argument over Arlovski with you because reading your response to my comment and to the one posted after your coming across as a bit of a troll. You don't like him or the way he fights don't watch man. He is a great of the sport, but each to their own.



But can you please help this troll and direct to those classic AA ground wars?

Dude, I give AA credit for having dangerous hands when he uses them. But these great fights you speak of must have happened years ago which would make them irrelevant to the current discussion. Or maybe not. Hey, let's talk about how Sak's win over Rampage back in Pride should make him a current title contender for the UFC LHW belt...........'kay?

Com'on dude, take the official AA rose colored glasses off for a second.
JohnnyNapalm
10/6/08 1:21:23PM
1. Fedor

2.. Nogueira

3.. Barnett

4.. Couture

5.. Sylvia

6.. Gabriel Gonzaga

7.. Crocop

8.. AA

9.. Aleks

10. Werdum

Something like that...

BTW, when someone uses the word "greatest" it usually applies to the OVERALL standings since the beginning. That would put AA even further down the list. Currently the HW division isn't very strong so the fact that AA is in the top 10 has more to do with that than his "greatness". A few more well rounded HW's and he'd be down to top 20.

I don't dislike AA, but he's proving more and more that he's a one dimensional fighter with obvious weaknesses that could be exploited by better fighters.
billycarnage
10/6/08 1:30:08PM
MALICE
10/6/08 1:36:01PM
Dude, do you have AA listed #8 as 1 of 10 HW's that can beat AA?
Rush
10/6/08 1:39:13PM
Arlovski's striking looked great in his fight against Nelson, but Nelson looked so poor that it's hard to really judge if what I saw was only superior striking or a mixture of great striking and a "poor" opponent.

As for ground work, again it's hard to judge from this fight alone. Nelson is not a top fighter. I don't care if he is a brown belt in BJJ, Roy Nelson is probably not even a top 20 HW.

Arlovski did what he had to do by not getting subbed or ground and pounded. I think he knew that he had the advantage on the feet. Why would Arlovski be too active on the ground, when his best chance was on the feet?

Again, I will stress that you can't judge Arlovski's abilities from this fight alone. But I do think he is more well rounded than most HWs, with his better half being the stand-up game.

As for a Fedor fight, yeah I want to see Fedor fight guys considered top HWs, but I think Fedor will make quick work of him. Fedor is fast enough to get inside, which takes away Arlovski's better part of the game.
cmill21
10/6/08 1:41:13PM
I like AA, his style is my favorite to watch, but his sambo isn't any match for Fedors(no one's is) so if it hits the ground it will probably be over quick, and I haven't seen anything like Fedor's stand up. IMO right now he is able to beat any HW up on the feet. The way he rotates everything into his punches AND is that quick and acurate with them is incredible(and the reason he hurts his hands), not to mention his ability to check even the best kicks(Cro Cop coulden't punish his legs). I honestly have no idea what kind of fighter is going to beat Fedor, I personally think it will be a lucky punch.
CantAndleDaRiddum
10/6/08 2:26:27PM

Posted by JohnnyNapalm

1. Fedor

2.. Nogueira

3.. Barnett

4.. Couture

5.. Sylvia

6.. Gabriel Gonzaga

7.. Crocop

8.. AA

9.. Aleks

10. Werdum

Something like that...

BTW, when someone uses the word "greatest" it usually applies to the OVERALL standings since the beginning. That would put AA even further down the list. Currently the HW division isn't very strong so the fact that AA is in the top 10 has more to do with that than his "greatness". A few more well rounded HW's and he'd be down to top 20.

I don't dislike AA, but he's proving more and more that he's a one dimensional fighter with obvious weaknesses that could be exploited by better fighters.



AA would kill CC, Couture

change of subject, this is for ALL Couture fans....

for all u who have him ranked so high, r u prepared to give Lesnar the same respect when he beats Couture?
JohnnyNapalm
10/6/08 2:39:43PM

Posted by billycarnage




Wow - how can I argue that?

Great response
JohnnyNapalm
10/6/08 2:43:41PM

Posted by xxMALICExx

Dude, do you have AA listed #8 as 1 of 10 HW's that can beat AA?



No, that's called a top 10 list.

The list is followed by an explanation of what the list represents.

Reading is what makes this all clear.
JohnnyNapalm
10/6/08 2:50:42PM

Posted by Rush

Arlovski's striking looked great in his fight against Nelson, but Nelson looked so poor that it's hard to really judge if what I saw was only superior striking or a mixture of great striking and a "poor" opponent.

As for ground work, again it's hard to judge from this fight alone. Nelson is not a top fighter. I don't care if he is a brown belt in BJJ, Roy Nelson is probably not even a top 20 HW.

Arlovski did what he had to do by not getting subbed or ground and pounded. I think he knew that he had the advantage on the feet. Why would Arlovski be too active on the ground, when his best chance was on the feet?

Again, I will stress that you can't judge Arlovski's abilities from this fight alone. But I do think he is more well rounded than most HWs, with his better half being the stand-up game.

As for a Fedor fight, yeah I want to see Fedor fight guys considered top HWs, but I think Fedor will make quick work of him. Fedor is fast enough to get inside, which takes away Arlovski's better part of the game.



I agree for the most part. But 2 things i must state, again:

(1) I'm not judging AA on this fight alone as far as his overall ability - he's looked even worse against better comp in recent fights (Werdum and Timx2). This fight simply highlights his weak ground game better than any recent fight.

(2) Not only was his ground game inactive, it was basically passive. He blocked the arm lock attempts and what else? Knowing that EliteXC likes to stand fights up quick, I'm betting he was counting on the ref and was stalling for time in the meantime. Wouldn't you agree?
MALICE
10/6/08 2:54:20PM

Posted by JohnnyNapalm


Posted by xxMALICExx

Dude, do you have AA listed #8 as 1 of 10 HW's that can beat AA?



No, that's called a top 10 list.

The list is followed by an explanation of what the list represents.

Reading is what makes this all clear.



Just checking.
Rush
10/6/08 3:12:07PM

Posted by JohnnyNapalm

I agree for the most part. But 2 things i must state, again:

(1) I'm not judging AA on this fight alone as far as his overall ability - he's looked even worse against better comp in recent fights (Werdum and Timx2). This fight simply highlights his weak ground game better than any recent fight.

(2) Not only was his ground game inactive, it was basically passive. He blocked the arm lock attempts and what else? Knowing that EliteXC likes to stand fights up quick, I'm betting he was counting on the ref and was stalling for time in the meantime. Wouldn't you agree?




1) I'll give you the Werdum fight. Yeah, he looked horrible in that. I can't criticize someone for looking lacklustre against big Tim. His size makes him a handful for nearly every fighter. but, Arlovski did a good job in their first fight.

2) Oh I agree. I think I even said that I thought that was his game plan. But I'm not going to criticize him for it no more than I'll criticize a great wrestler for having a ground and pound (sometimes lay n' pray) game plan. Likewise, it's not like Nelson did much either and he had the more dominant position on the ground. If anything I would blast him for not producing on the ground.
mkiv9secsupra
10/6/08 4:00:09PM
You think AA has poor TD defense?! Who have you seen take him down at will? Obrien who was a great collegiate wrestler seriously struggled taking him down. Did you even notice that AA was the one who took Nelson down? He tripped nelson then lost his balance as he tried to fall into mount and Nelson hung on to get on top. That doesnt say anything about AA's takedown defense. And what did Nelson do that amazed you that made AA look bad on the ground? The fact that he went for the same submission over and over yet couldnt get it or the fact that he had no GnP? Arlovski did what he had to do. He was being passive knowing Nelson is a brown belt in JJ and if AA got too aggressive in trying to get back to his feet he would probly get caught in a sub. That is smart. Also AA only had a week to touch up his skills instead of the full 2-3 month training regiment.


I could skew facts as well saying Couture wouldnt survive against AA because he has such a weak chin that was exposed by Liddell KOing him twice. You are stretching the fact that Nelson got a TD and saying AA has poor TD defense when in reallity you havent given a single fact to justify your oppinion

mkiv9secsupra
10/6/08 4:07:52PM

Posted by JohnnyNapalm
(2) Not only was his ground game inactive, it was basically passive. He blocked the arm lock attempts and what else? Knowing that EliteXC likes to stand fights up quick, I'm betting he was counting on the ref and was stalling for time in the meantime. Wouldn't you agree?



So......Did you know that these new age fighters have come up with this amazing little thing called....ummmm....STRATEGY. Did you ever think that this might be an outcome he was ready for and that being passive instead of getting subbed was his intention?
JohnnyNapalm
10/6/08 4:23:44PM

Posted by mkiv9secsupra


Posted by JohnnyNapalm
(2) Not only was his ground game inactive, it was basically passive. He blocked the arm lock attempts and what else? Knowing that EliteXC likes to stand fights up quick, I'm betting he was counting on the ref and was stalling for time in the meantime. Wouldn't you agree?



So......Did you know that these new age fighters have come up with this amazing little thing called....ummmm....STRATEGY. Did you ever think that this might be an outcome he was ready for and that being passive instead of getting subbed was his intention?




Right.

Great strategy.

Lay there and wait it out instead of using the great ground skills that the blind faithful claim that AA has at his disposal

Hopefully he gets a shot at Fedor and tries that. 3 seconds later he'll be tapping and wishing he developed his ground game when he had the chance against lesser fighters like Nelson. Use it or lose it - if he ever had it.
MALICE
10/6/08 4:32:11PM
Well......since Fedor just fought Tim Sylvia in July, I figure he is not due to fight another top 10 HW until June or July of 2011. So AA has plenty of time to work on his ground game until then. But that's only if he is the lucky top 10 HW that gets picked to fight Fedor that year.
tdietel01
10/6/08 5:36:44PM

Posted by xxMALICExx

Well......since Fedor just fought Tim Sylvia in July, I figure he is not due to fight another top 10 HW until June or July of 2011. So AA has plenty of time to work on his ground game until then. But that's only if he is the lucky top 10 HW that gets picked to fight Fedor that year.



JohnnyNapalm
10/7/08 12:24:50PM

Posted by xxMALICExx

Well......since Fedor just fought Tim Sylvia in July, I figure he is not due to fight another top 10 HW until June or July of 2011. So AA has plenty of time to work on his ground game until then. But that's only if he is the lucky top 10 HW that gets picked to fight Fedor that year.



Yes, and if Andrei spends a little less time shaving the hair off his body and hanging out with Jerry Springer he might find time to do just that.

Is 3 years enough?
WrestlersAssassin
10/7/08 4:01:19PM
I still stand by saying that only Andrei is the only one who could beat Fedor, and thats COULD, I would still pick Fedor. Cro Cop rematch would be good and if Werdum and Gonzaga keep getting better they'd have a decent shot.
RhythmAndStyle
10/8/08 11:44:12AM
don't think Fedor would be able to beat AA that fast..or at lease have little chances at Fedor..this fight would probably be a very intense match...
pv3Hpv3p
10/8/08 2:42:40PM

Posted by JohnnyNapalm


Posted by mkiv9secsupra

So......Did you know that these new age fighters have come up with this amazing little thing called....ummmm....STRATEGY. Did you ever think that this might be an outcome he was ready for and that being passive instead of getting subbed was his intention?




Right.

Great strategy.

Lay there and wait it out instead of using the great ground skills that the blind faithful claim that AA has at his disposal

Hopefully he gets a shot at Fedor and tries that. 3 seconds later he'll be tapping and wishing he developed his ground game when he had the chance against lesser fighters like Nelson. Use it or lose it - if he ever had it.



I understand that you don't agree or like the stragedy, but to be so sarcastic about a strategy that ended up working pretty damn well (he did get the KO afterall) doesn't seem to make much of any sense...

Maybe you don't like Arlovski, and that's fine, but do you really think that a seasoned fighter like him would devise the same strategy for fighting Fedor as Roy Nelson?!?!? C'mon now, we both know that's not the case...

If anything, I would blame the lack of action on the ground to Andrei training with a boxing coach (Freddie Roach) and not his lack of skill...

The bad comparison starts when you equate what Andrei would do against Fedor with what he did against Nelson... That just doens' t work....

No one claims that AA has an unstoppable groundgame and if they do they haven't in this thread... 14 wins... 3 subs... 10(T)KO's... this is either the record of a kickboxer with a sambo background, or the luckiest "Great ground fighter" (or whatever you called him) on the planet...

Pretty clear that AA prefers to stand and KO an opponent, so I don't really see what you're trying to bitch about here?
JohnnyNapalm
10/9/08 12:49:16PM

Posted by pv3Hpv3p


Posted by JohnnyNapalm


Posted by mkiv9secsupra

So......Did you know that these new age fighters have come up with this amazing little thing called....ummmm....STRATEGY. Did you ever think that this might be an outcome he was ready for and that being passive instead of getting subbed was his intention?




Right.

Great strategy.

Lay there and wait it out instead of using the great ground skills that the blind faithful claim that AA has at his disposal

Hopefully he gets a shot at Fedor and tries that. 3 seconds later he'll be tapping and wishing he developed his ground game when he had the chance against lesser fighters like Nelson. Use it or lose it - if he ever had it.



I understand that you don't agree or like the stragedy, but to be so sarcastic about a strategy that ended up working pretty damn well (he did get the KO afterall) doesn't seem to make much of any sense...

Maybe you don't like Arlovski, and that's fine, but do you really think that a seasoned fighter like him would devise the same strategy for fighting Fedor as Roy Nelson?!?!? C'mon now, we both know that's not the case...

If anything, I would blame the lack of action on the ground to Andrei training with a boxing coach (Freddie Roach) and not his lack of skill...

The bad comparison starts when you equate what Andrei would do against Fedor with what he did against Nelson... That just doens' t work....

No one claims that AA has an unstoppable groundgame and if they do they haven't in this thread... 14 wins... 3 subs... 10(T)KO's... this is either the record of a kickboxer with a sambo background, or the luckiest "Great ground fighter" (or whatever you called him) on the planet...

Pretty clear that AA prefers to stand and KO an opponent, so I don't really see what you're trying to bitch about here?



Bitching?

I see yo bitch and raise yo bitch

(1) Never called Andrei a great ground fighter - that was somebody else.

(2) Never implied he had a unstoppable ground game and i don't believe anybody else did either - great point though.

(3) Laying on the canvas and letting the ref stand the fight-up "prematurely" IMO is not a great/sensible strategy at anytime. Obviously, Andrei didn't have an answer for Nelson on the ground. And if he doesn't have an answer for Nelson's ground game, it's only going to be worse when Fedor takes him to the ground - if they ever fight.

That's my observation - or bicthservation.

BTW, when someone tries to give their honest opinion about a fight and it so happens that it doesn't make a fighter you like look good, don't take it personally and don't automatically assume they "dislike" that individual. I don't hate or seriously dislike anybody that I know personally let alone an MMA fighter that I've never met.

JohnnyNapalm
10/11/08 3:59:11AM



Posted by xxMALICExx

Well......since Fedor just fought Tim Sylvia in July, I figure he is not due to fight another top 10 HW until June or July of 2011. So AA has plenty of time to work on his ground game until then. But that's only if he is the lucky top 10 HW that gets picked to fight Fedor that year.





Damn, you must be feeling real smart right about now
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